Nope. Ayahuasca next Saturday, though.Underwater Ape said:anyone figured it all out yet?
Cebrious Arcane;1457955 said:Nope. Ayahuasca next Saturday, though.
Thanks. I've done many hallucinogens but something about "the husca" rings true with me and my friend, who recently started posting here as Ego Lost. I love tripping with him because our perspectives on the experience would be opposite if it weren't for all the similarities. Perhaps I can talk him into relaying his version of the experience and I will do the same, we'll see. Similarities are the reason I value my memory. Finding similarities in deep meditation, profound physical exertion, lucid dreaming, sleep and food deprivation, psilocibin, lsd, and ayahuasca. The consistency is what brings about the validity in the pursuit of the unknown for me, but the differences are equally important.Underwater Ape said:wow. have a safe journey. i've done 5meodmt. but it's nothing like an ayahuasca experience. i'm gonna do it some day though.
2.) Regarding God and Christianity. What if God abandoned this version of reality? As in, what if God said in much more eloquent and benevolent terms, of course, "Wow, these guys really fucked up. I'm moving on," and just left us to our own demise? I mean, with the attitude of God as portrayed in the Bible, is that not possible? Is it totally impossible that God would just abandon this reality because of the path humanity has chosen, and instead he has moved on to better, more faithful existences? That would explain why so many people question their faith, and also why so many people say, "If there is a God how could he let this happen," etc. Why not?
Worse is a judgement call, and therefore just opinion. Humanity, from the Bible, all goes back to Adam, Eve, and the apple. What if when Eve grabbed the apple, God said, "So that's that, on to the next attempt." Then took a more backseat, casual observation-type of approach, to this existence.Grad said:Humanity as a whole hasnt chosen any particular path, the choice of which path to follow comes down to the individual. you think humanity is bad now? it was far worse before the spread of Christianity.
Exactly. The bible says we have free will, yes. But not without rules, guidelines and restrictions, right? So, where does that leave us?Grad said:If God was constantly deciding what he would allow people to do, there wouldn't be much point in our existance.
Now, I don't want to step on your toes, but doesn't that seem a bit childish of God? I read that as literally, "You don't believe in me so I don't care about you." Like a spoiled little kid whose older sister won't play tea party with her.Grad said:God does have a defense mechanism to cope with the people that are faithless- he doesn't pay attention to them.
So God created us and wants us to love him without any justification for our love. And we must have faith in him with no proof except for the words passed to us through preacher's and priests whom are just as fallible as the rest of us. And if you do not have faith in God and belief in his word, you're condemned to hell for all eternity. How does that seem reasonable?Grad said:Which is why people say 'I don't believe in God cause God never did anything for me', anyone with half a clue can see this is the wrong attitude to have, and explains why God isn't listening to you. If you want God to listen to you, try actually believing in him before you go asking for things.
No worries there, I was raised Catholic. We have the Purgatory scapegoat, remember?Grad said:Don't get lost in the dogma of organized religion, just cause the church says you're a sinner doesn't mean you're going to hell. I don't think you need any reminders that the church is run by men, and it's not the responsibility of men to judge other men. Don't let "im going to hell anyway" be your poor excuse to not believe in God, cause that's not the case.
Cebrious Arcane;1458402 said:Worse is a judgement call, and therefore just opinion. Humanity, from the Bible, all goes back to Adam, Eve, and the apple. What if when Eve grabbed the apple, God said, "So that's that, on to the next attempt." Then took a more backseat, casual observation-type of approach, to this existence.
The bible says we have free will, yes. But not without rules, guidelines and restrictions, right? So, where does that leave us?
Now, I don't want to step on your toes, but doesn't that seem a bit childish of God? I read that as literally, "You don't believe in me so I don't care about you." Like a spoiled little kid whose older sister won't play tea party with her.
So God created us and wants us to love him without any justification for our love. And we must have faith in him with no proof except for the words passed to us through preacher's and priests whom are just as fallible as the rest of us. And if you do not have faith in God and belief in his word, you're condemned to hell for all eternity. How does that seem reasonable?
No worries there, I was raised Catholic. We have the Purgatory scapegoat, remember?
Cebrious Arcane;1458069 said:Thanks. I've done many hallucinogens but something about "the husca" rings true with me and my friend, who recently started posting here as Ego Lost. I love tripping with him because our perspectives on the experience would be opposite if it weren't for all the similarities. Perhaps I can talk him into relaying his version of the experience and I will do the same, we'll see. Similarities are the reason I value my memory. Finding similarities in deep meditation, profound physical exertion, lucid dreaming, sleep and food deprivation, psilocibin, lsd, and ayahuasca. The consistency is what brings about the validity in the pursuit of the unknown for me, but the differences are equally important.
Two topics to steer the thread back on track:
1.) I've recently been reading "Jisei" which are the poems written at the moment of death by Zen Monks. The most influential consistency is that not only do Zen monks laugh at the insignificance of temporal reality on their way onward, they often know well in advance when they will die. Now, most of the stories surrounding the Jisei are tales passed on from person to person and eventually written down. A few of the monks wrote their Jisei in the sand with a twig, then died sitting upright. Others wrote joking haiku, others wrote their Jisei a year in advance, then died exactly a year later. A few even wrote their poems, died, and then when their followers complained, revived themselves only two die a week later as they planned. How is it possible that these men not only predicted their deaths, but were so aware that they could die in the position of their choosing, oftentimes sitting upright?
2.) Regarding God and Christianity. What if God abandoned this version of reality? As in, what if God said in much more eloquent and benevolent terms, of course, "Wow, these guys really fucked up. I'm moving on," and just left us to our own demise? I mean, with the attitude of God as portrayed in the Bible, is that not possible? Is it totally impossible that God would just abandon this reality because of the path humanity has chosen, and instead he has moved on to better, more faithful existences? That would explain why so many people question their faith, and also why so many people say, "If there is a God how could he let this happen," etc. Why not?
Grad;1458542 said:Worse is a judgement call? So is the statement that humanity is on a bad path. If you'd like me to list the specific ways the spread of Christianity positively affected civilization here's some facts:
He also waged war through Italy, had his son killed, and the wife that bore him. Constantine was a man with a lot of stress and a lot of guilt. No wonder he embraced Christianity, it offered answers to the unanswerable questions, reasons for his guilt, and absolution.Grad;1458542 said:Worse is a judgement call? So is the statement that humanity is on a bad path. If you'd like me to list the specific ways the spread of Christianity positively affected civilization here's some facts:
-Before the spread of Christianity, Europe consisted of the Roman Empire and the warring tribes of the north. In Rome, brutal spectacles were held celebrating the perverse death of athletes and slaves. Eventually the Roman emporer Constantine converted to Christianity and put an end to these practices.
A tribe, warring or otherwise, is a civilization. Christianity brought their ideals to the north and forced them on the residents. You call it transformation into civilization, I call it the rape of a society.Grad said:In the north, warring tribes had been battling eachother for centuries, and only the most ruthless and brutal held onto what they had. Life then was a far cry from what is today. With the arrival of Christianity came the transformation into civilization.
Barbarism is relative. I catagorize encouraging a society with an overpopulation problem and starving children in the street to not use profilactics as barbaric. I call blowing up abortion clinics barbaric. I call molestation in a perceived sanctuary barbaric.Grad said:You could argue about the atrocities committed by the crusades and the spanish inquisition, but we must remember that men are men, and it can take a long time to come around. What's important is that they did, and society today (although not perfect) is far less barbaric than it used to be, and the level of civility we experience today we owe to the spread of Christianity.
Well, that's your opinion. Many Christian believers take it as fact. Scroll back a few pages in this thread and you'll find at least two.Grad said:The story of Adam and Eve is OBVIOUSLY written metaphorically. You could say "What if God had done this" but you can't really go anywhere with it, because what if he didn't?
What about people that have never heard of your God? That's my point.Grad said:It leaves you with a choice. The guidelines say not to do things which are harmful to others, yourself, or society as a whole. Whether you believe in God or not, these guidelines serve to make a better world for everyone. Whether you choose to follow them or not is up to you.
So God is the child in your metaphor? Interesting choice because that was my point, again. I likened God's behavior to that of a spoiled brat. Evidently, you agree.Grad said:A more literal translation would be "You deny my existence, what makes you worthy of my attention?". Although I think it's wrong to personify God, here's a more fitting example. Think of parents who disown their child, a child loves their parents unconditionally, but should that child still cling to his unsupportive parents, or should he ignore them until they choose to come around (or ignore them eternally, should they not)?
What if you don't have that choice? What if you are unaware of the inherent choice?Grad said:God created you and gave you the choice to do what you wish, because when you have that choice, the fact that you decide to love him would actually make it meaningful. He doesn't 'want' you to love him, it's your choice. Regarding the preachers/hell for eternity thing, it goes back to what I said about not falling into the dogma of organized religion.
More unjustified opinion. Silly goose. If that's what you call evidence, it's easy to see why you believe as you do.Grad said:You were raised Catholic, which is further evidence to what's wrong with it.
I just got done reading an article about Jain monks. Synchronicity at its finest.Underwater Ape said:Jain Monk Information
Underwater Ape said:have a safe journey.
Done and done. And the only thing in my mind as I drove to work today was, "Why don't I just keep driving...?"Sir Elton John;1458641 said:happy tripping ceb and good luck
Or do they only enforce the illusion of humanity?fonis said:They're the only things that give us our humanity, however.
Cebrious Arcane said:So your existence is solely personal. Experience is solely for the experience.