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How many of you are religious!

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  • Total voters
    83
  • Poll closed .
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Cebrious Arcane

Forum Murderer
Re: How many of you are religious!

Jezuz said:
There have been quite a few examples of evolution, observed in both the field and the lab. Evolution is an observed fact of life, and if you do your research has much more rational proof then the ideology that God created the Earth in seven days.
Observed by fallible perception. How is your faith that what you perceive is real any more valid than the faith that God is the creator?
Jezuz said:
I ask you this; Look outside your window... Look at yourself, and ask yourself how the hell did one entity create everything in seven days? As human beings we all need to grow up, and learn not to look at things so ignorantly and simple minded.
The same can be said about the random processes and evolution that resulted in our lives on this planet. How is that more logical? If you believe in God, he is an infinite, omnipotent, and omnipresent entity. He could have created all of existence in the snap of his fingers but it is more poetic to read the scripture of Genesis.
Jezuz said:
I bet if humans never discovered that he earth was round, I bet that you would be the believer to say it was flat.
So would you. Especially if you believe in science because science, at the time, said the earth was flat and proved it using their system of belief at the time.
 

fonis

Knight
Re: How many of you are religious!

Yet, as often repeated in this thread, science itself evolves and changes and has enough shame to admit itself wrong, amend itself, and progress onward. Religion, however, requires upsets in the church/what-have-you and establishes a new "this is what happened" story every time, only to be toppled again years later.

This is the beauty of science: it attempts to transcend the arrogance of man.
 

Cebrious Arcane

Forum Murderer
Re: How many of you are religious!

fonis said:
Yet, as often repeated in this thread, science itself evolves and changes and has enough shame to admit itself wrong, amend itself, and progress onward. Religion, however, requires upsets in the church/what-have-you and establishes a new "this is what happened" story every time, only to be toppled again years later.

This is the beauty of science: it attempts to transcend the arrogance of man.
Religion is also fluid based on its society of believers. Some believers in Christianity take the bible as literal, others as metaphor. For example, eating meat on Friday used to be a hellworthy trespass - now some believers eat meat on Friday, others do not eat meat on Friday during Lent, and others still do not eat meat at all.

The fluidity of both systems of belief is a result of evaluation and interpretation. The scientists evaluate their environment, interpret their perceptions, and draw their conclusions. Religious believers evaluate their doctrine, interpret their perceptions, and draw their conclusions. Some religious believers will stay true to the original doctrine as they believe only that is true. Others will make adjustments to their beliefs based on their interpretation of the original doctrine. That is why there are so many branches of Christianity, divisions of Buddhism, and why there is such a shit-storm in the middle east.

I was talking with some friends this weekend about the dynamics of religion and we came to the conclusion that there is a certain sense of apathy to science. As in, to believe in science truly, you accept the atheistic view and thus accept your inevitable and uneventful death and no afterlife. Because of that there is no inherent energy or motivation to the system of belief. The discoveries are observations but the conclusions are ultimately meaningless because the discoverer will die the same death he would had the discovery not been made. The only motivation, then, is the assurance that life carries on after your death and thus your discoveries and observations carry a timeless meaning. Which has a sense of beauty to it. Religion, in contrast, exists almost exlusively in that timeless meaning. So a disagreement among scientists is passive, casual, and hued with mutual respect because the apathy inherent with the acceptance of inevitable death is then spurred with the quickly approaching finale. A scientists urgency is to accomplish a task within his/her lifetime, while a religious believer's urgency and passion is a result of having his/her eternal life at stake. They're ultimately equal, but I would say the distinction offers a lot when analyzing the mental state, perspective, and reactions, of the believers in science vs the believers in religion.
 

fonis

Knight
Re: How many of you are religious!

Cebrious Arcane;1449334 said:
Religion is also fluid based on its society of believers. Some believers in Christianity take the bible as literal, others as metaphor. For example, eating meat on Friday used to be a hellworthy trespass - now some believers eat meat on Friday, others do not eat meat on Friday during Lent, and others still do not eat meat at all.

The fluidity of both systems of belief is a result of evaluation and interpretation. The scientists evaluate their environment, interpret their perceptions, and draw their conclusions. Religious believers evaluate their doctrine, interpret their perceptions, and draw their conclusions. Some religious believers will stay true to the original doctrine as they believe only that is true. Others will make adjustments to their beliefs based on their interpretation of the original doctrine. That is why there are so many branches of Christianity, divisions of Buddhism, and why there is such a shit-storm in the middle east.

And so instead of changing the religion they were in, they created a whole new one. There are fields of science, but the goal of it all is to bring it all together in the end. The goal of the particular sects of religion is to "be right," barring the 'universal' sects of Christianity/etc that have been described earlier in this thread.

My point is that there is no draw for consistency, which is my universal belief. Religions tend to disperse while science tries to come together. But, consistency could be as wrong as anyone else's belief. It's like believing in a god; in fact, it is a god when you get down to it. For example, take basic logic, a staple for any scientist:

Take this list of statements
A=1
B=2
C=A+B
C=4

Why can't this be true? Why does it have to be consistent? It hurts my head to think about it, but it is the god of science, at least as far as I can guess.

Cebrious Arcane;1449334 said:
I was talking with some friends this weekend about the dynamics of religion and we came to the conclusion that there is a certain sense of apathy to science. As in, to believe in science truly, you accept the atheistic view and thus accept your inevitable and uneventful death and no afterlife. Because of that there is no inherent energy or motivation to the system of belief. The discoveries are observations but the conclusions are ultimately meaningless because the discoverer will die the same death he would had the discovery not been made. The only motivation, then, is the assurance that life carries on after your death and thus your discoveries and observations carry a timeless meaning.

The afterlife of a scientist is his memory and impact in the world. It's selfish, but so is the afterlife of someone religious, and I can't think of anything of man which isn't selfish.

Cebrious Arcane;1449334 said:
A scientists urgency is to accomplish a task within his/her lifetime, while a religious believer's urgency and passion is a result of having his/her eternal life at stake. They're ultimately equal, but I would say the distinction offers a lot when analyzing the mental state, perspective, and reactions, of the believers in science vs the believers in religion.

It's interesting also to note that only the "afterlife" of the scientist does any good for society.
 
Re: How many of you are religious!

"The essence of Christianity is told us in the Garden of Eden story. The fruit that was forbidden was on the tree of knowledge. The subtext is, "All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions." ... Anybody who wants religion is welcome to it, as far as I'm concerned — I support your right to enjoy it. However, I would appreciate it if you exhibited more respect for the rights of those people who do not wish to share your dogma, rapture or necrodestination." - Zappa

I have to say I almost 100% agree with Zappa's views on religion.
 

MindLion

Wanderer
Re: How many of you are religious!

Kitchen_;1448883 said:
I believe prayer is when you're talking directly to God to find and answer to something, and when you meditate, you're trying to find the answer within yourself.

Well, I don't know that God is not something separate from immediate reality.
 

GradGT

Sorceror
Re: How many of you are religious!

A lot of people claim to not believe in the afterlife, but I think deep down inside we all do. To be honest, human existence would not make sense if there was no afterlife. If you truly don't believe in the afterlife, you might as well kill yourself right now and spare yourself the unbelievable amount of emotional weight that is waiting to be dropped on you as you grow older.

In the end, whether there is an afterlife or not may very well come down to what you believe. But I do tell you now that believing in it, whether it exists or not, is definately going to help you cope with the unbearable weight of life itself.
 

cloroxman

Wanderer
Re: How many of you are religious!

Grad;1450808 said:
A lot of people claim to not believe in the afterlife, but I think deep down inside we all do. To be honest, human existence would not make sense if there was no afterlife. If you truly don't believe in the afterlife, you might as well kill yourself right now and spare yourself the unbelievable amount of emotional weight that is waiting to be dropped on you as you grow older.

In the end, whether there is an afterlife or not may very well come down to what you believe. But I do tell you now that believing in it, whether it exists or not, is definately going to help you cope with the unbearable weight of life itself.

I disagree. I don't believe in an after life. I do not need a possibly in an afterlife to validate my existence right now.

A few questions for you then. Honest questions: If you knew there wasn't an afterlife...hypothetically, would you just kill yourself? Is the only reason you are alive right now is specifically because of that afterlife?
 

GradGT

Sorceror
Re: How many of you are religious!

cloroxman;1450944 said:
I disagree. I don't believe in an after life. I do not need a possibly in an afterlife to validate my existence right now.

A few questions for you then. Honest questions: If you knew there wasn't an afterlife...hypothetically, would you just kill yourself? Is the only reason you are alive right now is specifically because of that afterlife?



If I knew there wasn't an afterlife, would I kill myself? Maybe. In the grand scheme of things it wouldn't matter if I died now or died 40 years from now, but if I died now I wouldn't have to deal with the emotional trauma of passing time. Think of growing old and knowing you'll never have a chance to do the things you want to do. Think of the beautiful girls turned to old ladies, think of your closest loved ones dying and then only 'living on in memories'. Someday those memories die too.

Is the reason I'm alive right now because I believe in an afterlife? No. Does the thought of an afterlife help me to exist? Yes. Some people will argue that I'm living in a fantasy world, that when the brain function stops that's it. But in this case, the fantasy world is clearly better than the real one, and it's your choice which one you want to live in.
 

fonis

Knight
Re: How many of you are religious!

If you thought there to be no afterlife, wouldn't that just make you existential, since "the grand scheme of things" would just be the life you had? It'd make you live life to the fullest more than someone who believed there was an afterlife.
 

cloroxman

Wanderer
Re: How many of you are religious!

fonis;1451022 said:
If you thought there to be no afterlife, wouldn't that just make you existential, since "the grand scheme of things" would just be the life you had? It'd make you live life to the fullest more than someone who believed there was an afterlife.

I was just going to hit on that too. Beat me to it.

Grad;1450965 said:
but if I died now I wouldn't have to deal with the emotional trauma of passing time. Think of growing old and knowing you'll never have a chance to do the things you want to do. Think of the beautiful girls turned to old ladies, think of your closest loved ones dying and then only 'living on in memories'. Someday those memories die too.

Stop being so damn EMO. There. Problem solved.

Edit. eh, my bad, that was rude of me..but seriously, it is emo.
 

GradGT

Sorceror
Re: How many of you are religious!

lol way to use the 'e' word.

seriously it's not emo it's life. you're the one posting in a philosophical thread, i'm not saying i'm going to kill myself, i'm explaining why i think it's important to believe in afterlife. i don't feel emo in my world but i probably would in yours :D
 

cloroxman

Wanderer
Re: How many of you are religious!

Grad;1451077 said:
lol way to use the 'e' word.

seriously it's not emo it's life. you're the one posting in a philosophical thread, i'm not saying i'm going to kill myself, i'm explaining why i think it's important to believe in afterlife. i don't feel emo in my world but i probably would in yours :D

*laughs* I dig it. :)

And I agree, the emo word is almost the new godwin, and I am extremely guilty of using it.
 

Jezuz

Wanderer
Re: How many of you are religious!

Christianity has a built-in defense system: anything that questions a belief, no matter how logical the argument is, is the work of Satan by the very fact that it makes you question a belief. It's a very interesting defense mechanism and the only way to get by it -- and believe me, I was raised Southern Baptist -- is to take massive amounts of mushrooms, sit in a field, and just go, "Show me."
 

Cebrious Arcane

Forum Murderer
Re: How many of you are religious!

Grad said:
...but if I died now I wouldn't have to deal with the emotional trauma of passing time...
All experience is equal. You choose to be blessed by the experience or burdened by it. Who knows what mysteries will unfold in the coming years. Perhaps you'll discover the fountain of youth, eh? Or perhaps you'll get hit by a bus tomorrow.
 
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