Changes - August 23rd 2009

[Mara]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

I just have time to login my char to try out the effect.
I login my vet tamer with GM taming and lore. I ride on a 4x (mage) mare with ~35 wrestling and ~15 anatomy and tactics. (I dont ride on 7x as I don't want huge melee damage during the simple test.)

My testing target is on the Juka Lords. On average, it takes 2.5 min to kill one JL. I almost slept asleep. ZzzzZzz... During the fight, the mare mainly cast low circle spell and I did not see any eb and FS and did not hear any explosion.

I think that your test may not be providing accurate insight into the situation, unless perhaps you were able to prevent archery/melee damage from the juka lord. The juka lord has great skill in archery and hand to hand melee, and also high dexterity. Because you used a mare with no melee skills to attack the juka lord, the juka lord will interrupt all high level spells the mare tries to cast. The mare also doesn't do any melee damage in your test, so it is surprising that your mare won the fight at all.

Although the change does affect the way that PVP tamers play their template, perhaps the PVP tamers can still be effective without relying on the old huge damage bursts. I have had some success fighting these templates, but precasting explosion, stunning the opponent, and casting ebolt while the 7x mare drops flamestrikes and firebreaths always seemed a bit over the top. There are ways to fight these templates though, so I never really complained about it.

As far as the PVM goes, it's probably important to realize that all the monsters AI will also be a mix of the full spellbook. So your pets will be facing Balrons, etc. with the same sort of spell output. I think this opens the door to high-level PVM from a wider variety of templates.

 

[Trying]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

PvP aside, with this "increase" spell book options that magic wielding creatures now have, is there a "minimum" creature rating that has access to these new spell selections? if not, (and im only working on official figures here) the lesser magic users, example: wraith, shade, etc, would now be able to cast level 7 circles, as the maximum they can spawn with in terms of magic, is 70, (average of 62.6) (seventh circle requirements are 66.1 officially).
So in theory, if the above is correct, entering any graveyard could lead you into a serious gank fest by shades and wraiths, thats without anything higher even getting involved. (a lich for example would be able to cast level 8 circles)

Have you also considered champ spawns on this? AOE`s from champ spawn castings will seriously lag up the server, not taking into account summoned creatures, etc... the amount of "firing timers" this would need would put a huge load on the server.

Im not against "changes" but I think this is the wrong way to go, for a new character / player that enters the server, and tries to play and work his way up, PvM is an important thing, and if they try and train there skills and make some gold in the process (mid range players tend to use graveyards as one of these ways) getting ganked by 2 or 3 shades that are casting level 7 spells, will turn them away from the server, rather than encouraging them in my honest opinion, if these changes are here to stay, then really you should have it where as only magic wielding creatures above a certain magic skill has access to these "extra spells", which unless you have seriously modified the scripts is almost impossible to do, as I believe these are in "catergories" within the scripts, meaning its change all or change none for the extra spell circles, though as I say, I could be wrong depending on how much you have modifed the original scripts.

Just my thoughts on it really.

 

[a lawyer]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

The time to GM a mare's magery is now slightly more than doubled

 

[LKP]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

I just have time to login my char to try out the effect.
I login my vet tamer with GM taming and lore. I ride on a 4x (mage) mare with ~35 wrestling and ~15 anatomy and tactics. (I dont ride on 7x as I don't want huge melee damage during the simple test.)

My testing target is on the Juka Lords. On average, it takes 2.5 min to kill one JL. I almost slept asleep. ZzzzZzz... During the fight, the mare mainly cast low circle spell and I did not see any eb and FS and did not hear any explosion.

IMO, it is fine for the mare to cast low circle spell. However, as JesseJane said, the higher skill the mare is, the higher chance of a higher lever spell it should be. It makes no sense for the GM mage not casting any high quality spell.

More surprisely, the mare is not smarter than before. It is dumb to cast GH on itself. It does heal itself but I think they are mini-heals. I need to heal my mare several times during the fight.

Overall, the patch (lore) kills the tamer pvp template. The casting mechansim makes the pet far more stupid than before. The magic of pets is virtually useless even GM. I doubt whether using pets for PVM is still an effective way to earn money? My peace archer and silver fencer can kill much much faster than the tamer... This really makes me sick about the existence of tamer.

NM, Mara beat me to it.

 

[incubusfan1413]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

sounds cool

 

[fonis]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

PS.. If a PvP Tamer wants to keep its 7x mare, it has to either donate for a summon ball ($20), which goes to keeping the server going, or buy it back from its trappers for an insane price... So in the end, PvP Tamers LOSE A TON when they die.

That's what you get for pvp'ing with pets in the first place. You bring out the high-end, you better be ready to lose it.

PvP Tamers vs any other template have a lot more to lose in gold and time when they die.

Correct. The way it should be. Just like a dexxer rolling with full Invuln leather/chain/plate and runics.

Alchy Stun mages with wands own tamers, yet they're not really modified (Not a bitch at all).

These guys are a problem to everyone, not just tamers. Welcome to UOG.

PvP Tamers vs any other template have a lot more to lose in gold and time when they die.

Indeed. If you're not willing to lose it, don't pvp with them. It's OP if you had less to lose.

 

[Binky :)]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

Sounds good

 

[creap]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

Time to strip my pvp tamer of all his items and not use him again.

 

[War2.0]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

The best part about this whole update is the tamers whining about there stupid Mares.

Great update!

 

[Amazonia]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

This will finally drop the amount of PvP tamers. :]

Now let's remove alchy pots and stun system, no I'm kidding.

 

[Tusk]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

this is a horrible update.

first of all people dis taming just because it is not macroable.

i used my mare and dragon to hunt last night. they both at upper 70 magery and all they casted was mana drain, curse, and buff spells,, not harm, no arrow, no mb, very few lighting and ebolt.

the patch fuked something up. fix it.

for all of you who said there is no effect, did you actually tried to us your pets?

 

[War2.0]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

Alot of people don't use pets

 

[JesseJane]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

This will def hurt the donation of summon balls and pet bonding deeds. no one in their right mind would summon or bond a piece of shit 7x mare when u can tame a fresh one that will do the exact same thing.

all the other updates seem fine.

Bring back hero evil

 

[LKP]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

Mark already said he'd look at it and probably make some adjustments. Chill out. Pets have no place in PvP anyway, and tamers have always been the best PvM class. Maybe that being balanced out isn't such a bad thing.

 

[creap]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

Pets have no place in PvP anyway

This is a pretty opinionated statement. Its like saying firehorns have no place in pvp, and yet some people use them for just that.

 

[JesseJane]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

Mark already said he'd look at it and probably make some adjustments. Chill out. Pets have no place in PvP anyway, and tamers have always been the best PvM class. Maybe that being balanced out isn't such a bad thing.

lol a guy spamming pots and wands is just as over powered as a tamer with a 7x mare. pot wand is roughly 40 dmg every 5 sec with no mana used. my mare def doesnt FS every 5 sec, and noone stands there and lets it bite them. i use nearly 80% of my mana healing when i fight an alchy on my pvp tamer before i get a dump in.........so to all the ppl that say pvp tamers are over powered, you are retarded....... look at an alchy mage. ever been chased by an alchy dexer with a verite hammer and a pouch full of explode pots? 80 dmg hit and a 30 dmg pot............your dead if you arent wearing top of the line armor. tamers were fine. to have a bola tamer, you give up wrestle, therefore u get hit just about every time whether its a punch or a spear. stun tamers u give up stats on other skills....maybe resist, maybe magery. you do not stun as often because you do not have 100 wrestle or anat. your pet already went wild quicker and if you didnt have 100 int and a wonderfully happy pet(with 50.5 lore) it wouldnt listen to you anyway.

 

[LKP]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

Yeah, hi there. About the potions, I made this thread right here. You're preaching to the choir... no, make that the Pope, on this one. I hate the state of PvP right now and the love affair of this shard with purple potions.

Still, mares are pretty unbalanced too. Sure, it takes a decent number of skill points to control one... 200, about the same as a weapon. And you can invest another 100 to make it more effect, also like a weapon. And yes, a trained mare can be expensive and having it boated or trapped probably means you're going to lose quite a bit of gold or have donated to the shard beforehand to get a summoning ball.

The problem with mares is twofold. First is the ability to bring them in and out of combat constantly. On OSI, you couldn't get on a mount that was fighting... and as such, mares could be taken out of the fight by paralyzing them. Here, a tamer can just hop right back on his mare and the paralyze is instantly broken, and the mare can be brought right back into the fight. Secondly, paralyze also doesn't stop firebreath. There's another ability that's just as bad as a purple potion - it can't be disrupted, it can't be resisted, it can't miss, it costs no mana, and it does an insane amount of damage regardless of armor... Sound familiar? I might be talking about a purple potion if not for one other thing: You can't even see it coming. And two mares using firebreath in quick succession is also an instant kill.

The reason I've been more concerned with alchemy is that it's so widespread. Everyone and his mother has an alchy mage and/or an alchy dexer, and even characters without alchemy tend to carry purple potions because they're so amazing. On the other hand, I haven't had a problem with a bola tamer once since I started using bonded horses instead of ethies years ago.

I do have a tamer, though I haven't gotten around to actually using it much, that I intend to use for a little gold farming to upgrade my house and whatnot. But you're right that I'm opinionated. The reason I made a tamer is because they're undeniably powerful. They can sit back and peacemake and throw a bandage on their pets once in a while. Meanwhile, the pets do all the work for them, and in this way a single player can take on pretty much any monster in the game. Further, your own template, the bola tamer, is designed to take advantage of the fact that a single PvP character on foot is no match for a trained mare. Beating one requires offscreening, and the damn thing's way too fast unless you've got a mount to get away from it on... and even then, you might get FS/FB'ed dead just as you get to the edge of the screen.

Ask yourself why it would be impressive to watch a dexer take out a balron solo, when it's so routine for a tamer to farm them all day. I think the answer is just that tamers have always had obscene amounts of power, and we've just accepted that that's the way UO is.

Maybe it's time to stop accepting and started questioning. The only thing left to accept is that alchemy still needing attention doesn't justify anything else being overpowered, too.

 

[JesseJane]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

alchemy is fine now. ur pots hit everyone now, u risk going red. tamers were fine, you risk losing a mare that could have cost you over a mil.

 

[Frank Sinatra]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

If u are going to give them larger spell then make them smarter to know how to use it...why do i want a mare that cast para then right after cast IPY...let them be able to get trained to do combos or something but dont waste my 125 mana with para

 

[JesseJane]

Re: Changes - August 23rd 2009

If u are going to give them larger spell then make them smarter to know how to use it...why do i want a mare that cast para then right after cast IPY...let them be able to get trained to do combos or something but dont waste my 125 mana with para

aye this is a good idea........dont know if its possible to code that though.