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Doom and Things (Re: 17 days in Doom)
- Thread starter Eos
- Start date
RLSpker
Wanderer
mytilus
Sorceror
well coming here and crying about your luck is not going to fix anything, doom was never meant to be a way to get rich but if you want to spend the first year or so of playing here grinding it all the time so you can get suited the way xavier did then it is a viable play style... i guess. If you just want to farm mobs I can think of a ton that are far better than blood eles, any named ml mob, yamandons are easy to farm with a necro archer, or even dread spiders would be far better than bloods.
RLSpker
Wanderer
No one crying kid. Was offering my input with my doom experience as an example as how the current point system is working.
Thanks for the idea of gold farming.
Lucifall
Knight
I honestly don't think this is working as intended, then... >.<
I have to disagree. Yes, it was intended as a way to get rich (eventually). It was supposed to be a PvM spot with balanced risk vs reward just like the others.
DWN WTH VLWS
Sorceror
This has been successful on other shards as knowing your points lets people account for their pvm time more appropriately. Also, it allows players to know the best template/suits to utilize in trying to balance dps/luck so doom time becomes more efficient. Then we can all leave Eos alone about this damn drop rate so shard admins can focus on adding the travesty peerless quest!
Nikolay Kamburov
Squire
My experience after the new point system -> not very gear heavy archer ( 100 DI with Night Reaper, 45 Hit , 115 Archery, 115 Bushido ) , 800 Luck and I manage to honor quite often. Between 30 - 35 runs, 3 days of play arround 2 hours per day, 8k bolts used, most of the runs were with 6+ ppl arround me. I got a drop on the third day. Arcane shield. I hit for 80 - 110 dmg every 1.5 secs which is not even that much. Either I got extremely lucky or the new system is working better for me. 6 months ago I gave up doom after 3 weeks of grinding there with the same archer and not a single drop. I will keep you updated how its going on and when the second drop will come.
silvertiger
Knight
I so disagree with this. It all depends on where and how you farm.
points = totalPoints * ( 1 + luckMod )
That's exactly how it should be. or even at most.
points = totalPoints * ( 1 + luckMod ) / 2
Number of players shouldn't be calculated, either should how much total damage. There's no reason for it, killing faster is a reward for hitting harder, this setup is a drama style of gaming, pinning players against each other, causing rage fests.
And now that i look that it's coming from dota2, the game that has the biggest community of ragers on the internet, it's not a shock that it would have that result. please do not emulate dota2 style of finding out how to make players rage.
That's exactly how it should be. or even at most.
points = totalPoints * ( 1 + luckMod ) / 2
Number of players shouldn't be calculated, either should how much total damage. There's no reason for it, killing faster is a reward for hitting harder, this setup is a drama style of gaming, pinning players against each other, causing rage fests.
And now that i look that it's coming from dota2, the game that has the biggest community of ragers on the internet, it's not a shock that it would have that result. please do not emulate dota2 style of finding out how to make players rage.
RLSpker
Wanderer
I completely agree with this.
Nikolay Kamburov
Squire
Ok next drop came in today. This time Bracelet of Health. Again my xbow is on 100 durability so judging on that i would say that I should have practicaly shot relatively the same ammount of times. I see it quite consistent so far. I will keep an eye out for the third drop.
Nikolay Kamburov
Squire
Aaaaand another one comes. This Time Aegis. Shit again but still absolutely consistent as the previous two drops. Doom doesn't need fixing in my opinion. I've made some rough calcuation and I get a drop between 30 and 50 runs so far with gear on my char arround 2kk. I would say it is a pretty comfortable point for me. My advise is to avoid big clumped groups. Play doom when theer are between 3 and 6 ppl. Last drop came faster because the whole morning there were 3 ppl playing gauntlet and I bet they all got drop as well.
Kallitcha
Squire
So maybe it's not the point system as much as how the point system deals with high number of players...
Reximus
Page
Well, yeah, according to EOS's formula...
Lets say you did (100 / players) % of damage, 0 luck, 1 monster per room.
2 players, 35 - 50 rounds
3 players, 79 - 113 rounds
4 players, 141 - 202 rounds
5 players, 221 - 316 rounds
etc
The only reason to consider dividing by players on top of damage is to try and counter the individual luck bonus. but in practice, it only gives more bonus to heavy hitters with high luck, and penalizes low hitters with low luck, making the system extremely prone to causing players to rage on each other.
The damage is already being divided, so killing something faster means nothing, after killing two things, each player should get the same points as killing ONE thing. However, the current system is written for heavy hitters with high luck, which has been pointed out countless times. If you have a good suit, you get more of a good suit, if you're rich, you get richer, it literally makes the gauntlet a paradise for the wealthy, and a hell hole for the casual player.
That's the issue, the main issue with the system. It also shouldn't even consider the amount of players, or how much damage players do, it should give a flat amount of points after getting a kill, and luck added onto it. that's a balanced system that makes sense and benefits the server. more luck usually means hitting less, it slows the kill rate, so players have to balance their luck with damage, and if they get rich and have a heavy hitting luck suit, they benefit everyone else too, ontop of themselves.
The damage is already being divided, so killing something faster means nothing, after killing two things, each player should get the same points as killing ONE thing. However, the current system is written for heavy hitters with high luck, which has been pointed out countless times. If you have a good suit, you get more of a good suit, if you're rich, you get richer, it literally makes the gauntlet a paradise for the wealthy, and a hell hole for the casual player.
That's the issue, the main issue with the system. It also shouldn't even consider the amount of players, or how much damage players do, it should give a flat amount of points after getting a kill, and luck added onto it. that's a balanced system that makes sense and benefits the server. more luck usually means hitting less, it slows the kill rate, so players have to balance their luck with damage, and if they get rich and have a heavy hitting luck suit, they benefit everyone else too, ontop of themselves.
I should also point out that it is wrong to have the point system the way it is, it's not how OSI does it at all.
"Keep in mind if 10-15 people are doing the gauntlet more bosses will probably spawn which means more points for everyone participating"
- Patrick "Leurocian" Malott
Lead Systems Designer, Ultima Online
EA Mythic
http://www.uoforums.com/topic/13697-doom-changeswas-this-intended/
"Keep in mind if 10-15 people are doing the gauntlet more bosses will probably spawn which means more points for everyone participating"
- Patrick "Leurocian" Malott
Lead Systems Designer, Ultima Online
EA Mythic
http://www.uoforums.com/topic/13697-doom-changeswas-this-intended/
Nikolay Kamburov
Squire
Look I find it consistent although I use a relatively strange approach to measure the time spent in gauntlet.
I have night reaper which has 255 durability. I get all three drops after I lose around 150 durability. I have made runs with 12 ppl, I have made runs wit 2. Regardless of that I got them all after approximately after the same amount of durability lost, which to some extent measures the shots fired and the amount of time spent. The last drop came in after I lost 120 durability of the weapon but I am not sure whether it was due to the fact that I ran with 3 ppl most of the time or due to the fact I just got a little bit more lucky. 30 durability loss would be anyways a couple of more rounds.
I think the sweet spot to farm is when the number of ppl is just one on top of the requirement for next spawned monster. I am not sure how many ppl you need for second DF lets say but I saw that when we were 4 people we had 1 DF. Then we became 5 and a second one was spawned. Every way you look at it you would get more points from 5 ppl fighting 2 DFs than 4 ppl fighting 1. So look for the sweet spot if you want to minimize that time spent. I still assume though that the biggest factor is Damage / Luck combination. Getting them as much as you can will minimize the time more than counting people and fighting only in the sweet spot.
Besides number of ppl should affect this because you are allowed 4 accounts. And a lot of ppl will abuse the fact you can farm gauntlet with more chars risking the ban.
I have night reaper which has 255 durability. I get all three drops after I lose around 150 durability. I have made runs with 12 ppl, I have made runs wit 2. Regardless of that I got them all after approximately after the same amount of durability lost, which to some extent measures the shots fired and the amount of time spent. The last drop came in after I lost 120 durability of the weapon but I am not sure whether it was due to the fact that I ran with 3 ppl most of the time or due to the fact I just got a little bit more lucky. 30 durability loss would be anyways a couple of more rounds.
I think the sweet spot to farm is when the number of ppl is just one on top of the requirement for next spawned monster. I am not sure how many ppl you need for second DF lets say but I saw that when we were 4 people we had 1 DF. Then we became 5 and a second one was spawned. Every way you look at it you would get more points from 5 ppl fighting 2 DFs than 4 ppl fighting 1. So look for the sweet spot if you want to minimize that time spent. I still assume though that the biggest factor is Damage / Luck combination. Getting them as much as you can will minimize the time more than counting people and fighting only in the sweet spot.
Besides number of ppl should affect this because you are allowed 4 accounts. And a lot of ppl will abuse the fact you can farm gauntlet with more chars risking the ban.
Nikolay Kamburov
Squire
I do not agree. Image yourself as a well trained war mashine spent years of training in killing monsters, collected through various adventures in your life all sort of relics and luck charms so that the Gods favor you. Then you fight that ultimate evil creature and a you have as a companion a random peasant with a stick and a luck charm from his grandma. You both fight the evil monster and you take out 90% of the fight on your back, kicking the ass of that monster and the peasent with the stick shits himself everytime the monster looks at him but while you are fighting he is throwing stones at the back of the monster. In the end you slay the beast and the fucking peasant gets equal share of the loot.
Now image in this situation you are not even able to hit the peasant in the face
and that he is jumping naked with his stick saying trollololololo lets do one more. Then compare it like this - ppl spent 100 kk on gearing a devastating sampire which is able to pull out crazy ammount of damage and me with my crappy archer with 4 fire resist and shitload of luck enter and I get the same drop chance as you. Its not fair to any extent. Of course high luck/high damage chars should be awarded more. Drop chance should be proportional to your role in the fight. It is unfair to to the low luck tanking tamers or to the no luck tanking sampire not able even to honor I agree. This is what needs correction in my opinion. The most raging thing in the game is the honor hunger because of the luck and damage increases. It is sad to see a sampire tank in doom not able to honor although the DF is kicking his ass and he helds it barely while on his back 6 archers , 1 of which honored dish out crazy damage and pull out arties on his behalf. It would have been nice if everybody is able to honor or if no one is. That would decrease the rage factor in doom .
As I interpret it the current formula for gaining points is dependent on the damage you dish and the suit you have for luck. Yes more people mean slower gain but the difference is not that dramatical. Yes it could mean an hour or two more farming but cmon thats not that impossible. I farmed 852 hours Diablo3 for my first Mempo which I sold for 50 EUR.
If you fight alongside a heavy hitter he is not in anyway obstructing your gain rate because the point gain is a function of your own damage per time and your own luck. More heavy hitters arround you - more runs. Less heavy hitters arround you - more damage for you but less runs. Things will balance out pretty well in the long run resulting in somehow constant gain depending on the way your character is build. MUCH BETTER THAN THE OLD SYSTEM WHERE EVERYTHING WAS TOTAL RANDOM CRAP.