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Changes - May 28, 2016 - Wands (cont.), bolas, potions

kdivers

Knight
It's almost like they want to bring the tank mage back into action.
Yet again a change that baffles me. (the weight change)

**EDIT**

Thought I would show, how weird that change is.
I have no armor on, clothing, 100 each reg and 22 each pot except for 33 explo pots.
I've been running with this stock for the last 7+ years, and now I can't even move.

It feels like you (GM's or whoever comes up with these changes) want to change the gameplay dramaticly.
How many years ago did they make potions stackable?
 

Seer Duncan

Hybrid Staff Member
Can you tell me who is the voice behind all of these changes? Who is the experienced PvPer approving these changes, and why is the player base not informed before said changes? Thanks @Seer Duncan
I think Suzy answered this in her previous post. I wouldn't have much more insight on the specifics. You're more than welcome to chat with me or anyone in Slack. Suzy has been very active in the general Hybrid chat channel. From an outside perspective, I would continue posting in the general forum, since the staff seems to be considering everyone's input there.

General forum: http://www.uogamers.com/community/index.php?forums/80/

Suzy's post. http://www.uogamers.com/community/index.php?threads/598641/page-4

Slack: https://uogamers.slack.com/messages/hybrid/
 
I'm sorry but I think you understood my question wrong... I was curious of who was behind these changes and what pvpers were consulted... I don't recall anyone ever suggesting to make potions weight a shit ton making it impossible to carry hardly anything.
 
I can see how making fielding a war of attrition could be seen positively. The only problem I have against it stems from dueling. Perhaps setting weight at 1.5 stones per potion would be better, and see how that feels.

@Suzy What is the thought process behind duels consuming stock? Since there is no risk/reward in dueling, and duelers have asked for non consumable duels since I can remember, then maybe this is the time to rethink it? It seems to be one of the major turn offs to increased potion weight in terms of being able to stock for dueling.
 
I can see how making fielding a war of attrition could be seen positively. The only problem I have against it stems from dueling. Perhaps setting weight at 1.5 stones per potion would be better, and see how that feels.

@Suzy What is the thought process behind duels consuming stock? Since there is no risk/reward in dueling, and duelers have asked for non consumable duels since I can remember, then maybe this is the time to rethink it?
That was going to be one of my top suggestions, adding an option to the dueling rulesets to not consume any resources other than arrows, explosion potions, and bandages. Also clearing the dueling leader board. Something the pvp community as a whole could agree on.
 
That was going to be one of my top suggestions, adding an option to the dueling rulesets to not consume any resources other than arrows, explosion potions, and bandages. Also clearing the dueling leader board. Something the pvp community as a whole could agree on.
The only problem I see with it is economically, honestly. A lot of stock gets consumed from dueling, that without would probably hurt the reg market. TBH, faction vendors should be removed so there can actually be a non choke hold/monopoly on reagents and other faction vendor items.
 

Pat McGroin

Sorceror
It's very simple.

If who ever is in charge of making a bunch of changes to the game that the vast majority of the population does not approve of, then you need to re evaluate how you are coming up with your decisions on these "changes"

I don't understand why if you make an update that the players of the server don't like, you can't change it back?

You guys aren't Corporate America that needs to go through some string of commands to make this happen.

If you make a change and the people who keep this server alive by playing it, don't like it. Then you need to change it back because with out the player base this server does not exist.

Thank you
 

Tobias

Sorceror
People should stop leaving negative and useless comments - IT'S NOT HELPING
For those who want to play UOW, go play UOW - We don't give a shit.

I'm just curious, how you test the ideas?
It feels like, you want to test an idea, you tweak it and put it into the game, without actually testing it.
I obviously have NO clue, as to how you test the changes, but it feels like it's not done properly enough.
Anyway, my original post wasn't meant as a criticism, It was just to show the issue regarding weight :)
 

Aragorn13

Traveler
People should stop leaving negative and useless comments - IT'S NOT HELPING
For those who want to play UOW, go play UOW - We don't give a shit.

I'm just curious, how you test the ideas?
It feels like, you want to test an idea, you tweak it and put it into the game, without actually testing it.
I obviously have NO clue, as to how you test the changes, but it feels like it's not done properly enough.
Anyway, my original post wasn't meant as a criticism, It was just to show the issue regarding weight :)
Peoples who to advertise uow should be punished.
 

Thank you all for the swift feedback. First of all, there seems to be some confusion about why we're making these changes. For a good while now, Hybrid has exclusively seen new content updates, such as new dungeons, monsters, rares and crafting items. PvP mechanics have been ignored, and for a good reason; PvP mechanics are complex. We realize this, and that's why we've always liked to tread carefully.

Then came around the Suggestion Thread, and the dialogue that opened with Ryan and krrios. One thing became clear, and that is that we need to stop adding new content for a while and focus on longstanding PvP issues. According to a vast majority, the top priority issues included wands, bolas, hybrid armor, the event league weapons, etc. From these remarks and suggestions, we are compiling the PvP changes you're seeing now.

As for wands specifically, there were many conflicting ideas about how to "fix" the issue. A popular suggestion was to remove them completely, which I believe to be a bad decision. It's very easy to say "this is bad, let's remove it completely". It requires virtually no thought. However, as we've seen in the past week, once wands are no longer prevalent in the PvP scene, bolas become the next issue. So then, we remove bolas completely? In a year's time, we'd have nothing left but 5x mages because we'll have removed everything else.

A more appropriate change for a vastly diverse game such as UO seems to be focusing on balancing the various available mechanics. Once removing wands completely was off the table, we started to discuss ways for making them more balanced. This ranged from mana usage, a reduction in effectiveness, stopping the use of them while chasing a target, increased cast times, and so on. Eventually, we decided on the changes we made because they addressed the key issues, and because they were suggested numerous times.

The wand changes were most definitely not random nerfs. The magery penalty when equipping a wand, for example, reduces the effectiveness of wand-cast spells. Stopping them from being used while moving prevents people being killed on the move by whoever has the most wand charges. It should also be noted that, apart from showing the words of power, all of the wand changes are historical OSI changes they made to balance their wands. (Except on OSI equipped wands have a random 20-30 magery penalty. To not complicate the buying/selling we decided on a fixed 25.) This is important because Hybrid, at its core, is a "mix of eras", rather than a random set of game rules.

As for this week's changes, for the past week we've been hearing that now wands are no longer the top priority issue, we should focus on the issue of bola tamers. We considered several possible changes, such as making bolas only usable without followers, reducing the success chance of bolas (possibly based on how many followers you have), reducing the damage pets do versus players, or making them flat out require 100 tactics.

Obviously, making bolas usable only without followers is effectively removing the bola tamer template from the game, much like taking out wands completely. We're trying to find balance, not kill diversity. The 100 tactics requirement was discarded because it might favor warrior templates, which could lead to warriors becoming next week's problem.

Eventually we decided on the increased weight of bolas to limit the amount carried at any one time, thus reducing them to an occasional opportunity item (instead of a continuous gameplay style). The remount block for the thrower increases the impact of throwing a bola, for the thrower will now have to be on foot for the same duration as the target. Whether these changes are effective enough remains to be seen, but they should move us towards a more leveled playing field.

The potion weight has been suggested numerous times as well, and its purpose is to reduce the stock and combat the endless chugging that has been reported to be a problem. It is a valid point, however, that this change affects dueling tournaments negatively, when there is little time to restock in between fights. There is already a 30 second minimum pause between consecutive fights in tournaments, but we could increase this further.

The fact that Hybrid feels like a testing grounds is something we fully understand, and it's something we would very much like to avoid. However, even if we had a separate test center, traditionally we've seen that only a small fraction of players will actually play there. When the changes finally come around to the actual server, the surprised reaction remains. (The same could be said for forum polls.)
I haven't seen many people complain about 'endless chugging'. Just change it back to what is was before.
 

TheHawks

Sorceror
I've never heard anyone complain about the amount of pots :eek:
The only person complaining about pots was mickey because the sm^ guild was using str pots to counter his weaken/wand macro.
I get a bad feeling seeing these lower tier gms initiating game breaking changes so shortly after Ryan and Krioss just 'started' their "Make hybrid great again 2016" tour. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad stuff is actually happening. But shouldn't the shard leader be the one directing and implementing changes?
 

TRADE MAN

Squire
I support all changes made except for the new potion weight. I vote that way change the potion weight back to normal. I am honestly just tickled to see changes happening to Hybrid. Thanks staff for donating your free time and giving us your best. Changes are always tricky, but lets remember guys... anything can be changed back. No biggy here. Just remember that we are adults here and no sense in starting a bitch fest. We can give staff our opinion and let them make the best decision they can.
 

kdivers

Knight
I support all changes made except for the new potion weight. I vote that way change the potion weight back to normal. I am honestly just tickled to see changes happening to Hybrid. Thanks staff for donating your free time and giving us your best. Changes are always tricky, but lets remember guys... anything can be changed back. No biggy here. Just remember that we are adults here and no sense in starting a bitch fest. We can give staff our opinion and let them make the best decision they can.
Woah woah woah, adults? ADULTS?
 
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