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Five on Friday #12

Styx

Demise Administrator
Can you elaborate a bit more how detect hidden is working?

Quoting UO Guide " The passive Detect Hidden range against a character using Stealth is a 4 tile radius; stealthers are advised to stay at least 4 tiles away from others. As of Publish 80 passive detection of (floor) traps will only occur if a player has at least 75 detecting hidden skill. "

Lets say a character has 100 Detect Hidden. Does this mean that as long it is 4 tiles away from a stealther ( someone actively using stealth ) he will be revealed ?


We do not have passive detect hidden on Demise. You do not have to worry about getting close to other characters, unless they are actively using the detect hidden skill.

(The reason we do not have passive detect hidden is because it's widely considered one of the more annoying features on OSI. Elves, with their bonus to passively detecting players, don't even need any detect hidden skill to reveal a player with 100 hiding and 120 stealth there. :rolleyes:)

How are the emblems calculated for runic armor (for CUB)?

If armor is not an artifact (pre-set higher return values for those are specified), then the armor piece's return value is based on the number of mods it has, the resource it's made of, and whether it's exceptionally crafted or not.

The "number of mods" includes the intensity of the mods, so 2 mods at 50% intensity (0.5 + 0.5) would count the same as 1 mod at 100% intensity (1.0). As for the resource, you will get a higher return value for higher levels of leather (e.g. barbed) or metal (e.g. valorite).

These numbers are applied as a multiplier to the random base value (50-72 emblems), so high variability may still exist between similar armor pieces, based on your real life luck!


Will morph earrings and supernova potions ever be implemented?


Being faction artifacts, added in publish 56 during ML, these are scheduled to be added. Though, a lot of players worry about the balance of those items (mostly the improved gear artifacts), and that's something we plan to very carefully look at before making that system available.

Is there a difference in damage output on weapons say "Super Slayers (arachnid)" vs "Named Slayer (scorpion)"? If not is this something that is planned on being fixed?


There is no difference in damage bonus between super slayers and individual slayers here (they both give a 100% damage bonus, before the 300% cap). This was also the case on OSI, until they changed individual slayers for Stygian Abyss to provide a 200% bonus. Being a post-ML change, we are not planning to implement this anytime soon.

Will you ever fix the casting?

"Fix" is an interesting term to use, I would say we already did.

For people who have played OSI, the difference in casting is definitely noticeable. However, we are using the same spell delay calculations OSI is. So what gives?

OSI has two major problems that I've come across while testing casting differences. (Tests were performed by measuring the time between casting a spell and receiving the target query. This can be done quite accurately with Razor packet logging. To get an accurate reading, this is performed 20 times. The round-trip time to the server is subtracted to account for latency.)
  • Problem #1 is their timer management.

    Take the Clumsy spell for example. It being a circle 1 magery spell, its cast delay should be 0.75 seconds. Our spell casting timers are checked for completion every 0.025 seconds. Including other processing the server is doing, you will generally observe a response within 0.75-0.80 seconds (not including latency to the server).

    On OSI, however, a test results in response delays varying from 0.76 to 1.02 seconds (not including latency)! That's a possible extra delay 1/3 of the delay it should be! The average observed delay was 0.90 seconds.

    The spread between 0.76 and 1.02 seconds is evenly distributed, which leads me to believe they only check their spell timers for completion every 0.25 seconds (10 times slower than us).

    Indeed, this is also the case when performing a test for higher spells such as Resurrection, which should have a delay of 2.5 seconds, but on OSI a delay of 2.56-2.77 (average 2.65) is observed.
    :space:
  • Problem #2 is spontaneous spell amnesia (when casting too fast).

    This is technically not related to the speed of casting, but players often point it out as a core difference between OSI and Demise casting. It is related to the time between casts.

    Usually players will say there is a minimum recovery delay on OSI. However, that is not the case. We are using the same FCR formula as OSI, with 6 FCR completely negating any cast recovery delay. You can tell by holding down a spell hotkey on OSI. Whereas you will see tons of "You have not yet recovered from casting a spell" at 5 FCR, that message disappears completely at 6 FCR. The only message you will ever see is "You are already casting a spell".

    However, when casting spells in fast succession on OSI, there is a chance the server will forget a request after beginning executing it. This sounds weird, because it is. You can observe this behavior yourself by casting a spell immediately after receiving a target (it does not have to be the same spell). Occasionally, the words of power will display over your head, your body will begin the casting animation as usual, and after the first initial animation the casting animation just stops, without any error message or notification. The target is never received.

    My guess is that this is caused by the same poor timer management.
    :space:
When asking us to "fix" casting, players are essentially asking us to add a 0-0.25 second random delay to cast times, and for spells to occasionally stop casting mid-way.

So are we going to "fix" casting? No.




Please direct any questions you have for Five on Friday to the question thread by clicking here

A big thanks to Eos for her detailed explanations and hard work!
 

Bama

Bug Huntress
Thank you for the Five on Friday
I have a question
(The reason we do not have passive detect hidden is because it's widely considered one of the more annoying features on OSI. Elves, with their bonus to passively detecting players, don't even need any detect hidden skill to reveal a player with 100 hiding and 120 stealth there.)

So"passive detect hidden" a racial bonus for elves is not active on Demise but the "JOAT human racial bonus" is active for detect hidden?

I have a stealther. He has 100 hide 100 stealth 100 or so dex.
I can detect him in 1 go 99% of the time with my human with the racial +20 bonus. This is standing in a feild not in my house. the stealther is naked and has resist spells which i dont think matters
This doesnt seem right.
 

Eos

Demise Administrator
Staff member
So"passive detect hidden" a racial bonus for elves is not active on Demise but the "JOAT human racial bonus" is active for detect hidden?
I have a stealther. He has 100 hide 100 stealth 100 or so dex.
I can detect him in 1 go 99% of the time with my human with the racial +20 bonus. This is standing in a feild not in my house. the stealther is naked and has resist spells which i dont think matters
This doesnt seem right.
Humans do get the JOAT bonus, but at 20 detect hidden it's impossible to detect a person with more than 40 hiding. (A quick test on the TC verifies this.) Something else must be going on in that bug report, maybe he was using the Reveal spell?
 

kolbycrouch

Knight
Doesn't change the fact that casting on OSI is different, and other mechanics in the game are balanced around it. Seeing that those other mechanics are mostly correct here, it makes casting overpowered.

Especially since you've decided to allow an assistant that can do all the work for you.
 

hickman48

Knight
no one is actually complaining about the speed that spells are cast its that there is pretty much zip recovery on demise as soon as your interrupted your able to recast instantly.
 
When you allowed steam scripts to cast for players, and dont fix the imperfections that your server has...? WHAT!? im just dumbfounded at this point, no wonder ryan decided it was his time.
 

Dexter-LoM

Knight
I got a question, if casting is not going to get fix / updated is demise looking at other option to fix the loops? couple of option would be to remove the right of using steam or maybe modifie steam like they did in the past with razor that one cannot just hold a button.
I understand staff might not have access to uosteam source but then again when steam was first introduce the ideal was sold with updates and stuff until one of the dev decided to drop out once he was refused by osi.
 

hickman48

Knight
I got a question, if casting is not going to get fix / updated is demise looking at other option to fix the loops? couple of option would be to remove the right of using steam or maybe modifie steam like they did in the past with razor that one cannot just hold a button.
I understand staff might not have access to uosteam source but then again when steam was first introduce the ideal was sold with updates and stuff until one of the dev decided to drop out once he was refused by osi.

Does not matter since your allowed to use easy uo in pvp also as long as you can do it with raz even if its a crap macro you turn it into a polished turd with easy uo.
 

Dexter-LoM

Knight
Does not matter since your allowed to use easy uo in pvp also as long as you can do it with raz even if its a crap macro you turn it into a polished turd with easy uo.
I gotta agree. Any shit script is now aloud its kinda fucking pathetic they let everyone
Run with steam euo moded razor but HEY DONT YOU FUCKING AUTO LOOT YOUR OWN CORPSE NOW. This shit will get you jailled......
 

Ortiz

Sorceror
I'm not really sure why people want casting delay to be changed if it works how described above. Spell timing will be trash if you add a "random" delay.
 

hickman48

Knight
I'm not really sure why people want casting delay to be changed if it works how described above. Spell timing will be trash if you add a "random" delay.


what iv read styx tested the speed at wich a spell was cast ie casted fireball it took 2 seconds to go off < not the actull test or numbers the main problem with demise casting vs osi casting is if you go to cast that 2 second fire ball and i hit you on demise you can instantly recast it. On osi you are forced to recover before casting the next spell its the fcr problem im not sure why he/she tested cast speed of spells.



  • This is technically not related to the speed of casting, but players often point it out as a core difference between OSI and Demise casting. It is related to the time between casts.

    Usually players will say there is a minimum recovery delay on OSI. However, that is not the case. We are using the same FCR formula as OSI, with 6 FCR completely negating any cast recovery delay. You can tell by holding down a spell hotkey on OSI. Whereas you will see tons of "You have not yet recovered from casting a spell" at 5 FCR, that message disappears completely at 6 FCR. The only message you will ever see is "You are already casting a spell".

    However, when casting spells in fast succession on OSI, there is a chance the server will forget a request after beginning executing it. This sounds weird, because it is. You can observe this behavior yourself by casting a spell immediately after receiving a target (it does not have to be the same spell). Occasionally, the words of power will display over your head, your body will begin the casting animation as usual, and after the first initial animation the casting animation just stops, without any error message or notification. The target is never received.
The delay was tested here but not under the right conditions its not delay after the spell was cast that is not the problem the problem is when your in mid cast and interrupted there is a delay on osi on demise there is not as in instant recast on demise vs small delay based on level of spell you where casting on osi.
 

E-Thug

Traveler
When asking us to "fix" casting, players are essentially asking us to add a 0-0.25 second random delay to cast times, and for spells to occasionally stop casting mid-way.

So are we going to "fix" casting? No.

Wonderful.
Styx, you guys are doing a fine job. Don't listen to the haters complaining about casting/UOS because they are too bad at pvp or computer savvy enough to figure out how to play/pvp properly :)
 

Slugworth

Squire
Wonderful.
Styx, you guys are doing a fine job. Don't listen to the haters complaining about casting/UOS because they are too bad at pvp or computer savvy enough to figure out how to play/pvp properly :)
Yeah you're a fucking dumb fuck, who obviously relies on holding a button down and still getting shit on, 1v1 for mills any time.
 
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