Explosion pots ruin uogamers

[Blous3s]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

What?!?!

So why use them??

If everything was meant to be easy. It wouldnt be fun.

rofl are u serious? ur basically saying that people wont use them to make it more difficult. people will obviously use them because it makes their chances to win better. also when people run away its the only way to really stop them from accomplishing that. and you are wrong winning is always fun, except when u cheat. and purple pots arent cheating. i mean u all make it seem like purple pots are like a 1 hit kill. go alchy duel a couple days (which prevents running) and l2p. u will see they are obviously a bonus but they arent some godlike gift given to uo players.

 

[hella]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

rofl are u serious? ur basically saying that people wont use them to make it more difficult. people will obviously use them because it makes their chances to win better. also when people run away its the only way to really stop them from accomplishing that. and you are wrong winning is always fun, except when u cheat. and purple pots arent cheating. i mean u all make it seem like purple pots are like a 1 hit kill. go alchy duel a couple days (which prevents running) and l2p. u will see they are obviously a bonus but they arent some godlike gift given to uo players.

just make them so when you throw it the pots would not follow behind you .kinda odd you can run in circles and the pots still fly behind ya . gets kinda old .

 

[g0tbluff]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

I don't mind pots or the way they target, but I think there should be a slightly longer delay between pots, or maybe dmg is AR dependant? Infact scratch the last one, alchy dexers will become overpowered.

 

[Symptom]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

rofl are u serious? ur basically saying that people wont use them to make it more difficult. people will obviously use them because it makes their chances to win better. also when people run away its the only way to really stop them from accomplishing that. and you are wrong winning is always fun, except when u cheat. and purple pots arent cheating. i mean u all make it seem like purple pots are like a 1 hit kill. go alchy duel a couple days (which prevents running) and l2p. u will see they are obviously a bonus but they arent some godlike gift given to uo players.

Sounds like someone got a little defensive there. As I've stated before, I dont care if they get nerfed or if they don't. I merely made a suggestion. Just because you need them to pvp, doesnt mean everyone else does.
Obviously this is a major issue with you or you wouldnt defend them so much.

Understand what other people are saying before you post rubbish.

 

[lolzao]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

I think the only problem about the explosion pots is the area effect that is off

 

[Ankoku15]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

I'm all for getting rid of vent, but that's obviously impossible. Even if they had some punkbuster-like program monitoring all the processes you're running, people would just start getting their guildies on the phone. This is already a better idea, as there's no noticeable lag like there is with vent.

But as for "hally hit gayness?" The only issue there is that no shard out there has the timing right. Divinity's staff intentionally changed it to make it more fast-paced. Other shards have done the same, or simply gotten it wrong as they pieced it together from memory.

If it were working as it used to, there wouldn't be anything cheap about a hally combo.

It had a long swing timer, based on the last time you swung anything (including a fist). Therefore, all you had to do was run into the attacker while he was casting, forcing him to throw a punch, and resetting his swing timer. That would buy you enough time to heal up and/or start a counter-attack if you timed it well. That's a great counter because it's available to everyone regardless of template. You could also disrupt the spells, put up RA or MR, parry if you had it, run while he's frozen, precast your own heal, or hope your resist works or the hally misses. Those could all save you from the decidedly over-hyped hally combo.

Purple potions are a different issue because they can't be resisted, or parried. Armor does nothing, nor does resist. They always hit if timed reasonably well (with a huge margin of error). They don't freeze the user in place, so you can't outrun them. There's nothing you can do to disrupt them, either. In short, they're cheap. The same goes for wands.

I'll also comment on the "necessary evil" line someone dropped back around page 7. It was something like "purple potions are needed to stop people from running away." It's true that it's too easy to run away from a fight in UO, but it wasn't always that way. I say the best solution to this problem is the historically accurate one. It consists of two parts:

1) Restore mount stamina to its Pre-UOR function. I could exhaust a horse then by running across one town on dial-up. Now I can run the entire length of the continent at a broadband sprint and my horse never fatigues.

2) Restore mount combat functionality. That is, "You cannot get on a mount while it is fighting."

This accomplishes so many good things for PvP in one blow. First, you fix this problem of endlessly running away. After sprinting a few screens, the runner will have to stop and dismount to feed his pet to restore its stamina. While he's dismounted, you'll have an opportunity to engage the mount in combat, stopping him from remounting to flee.

Secondly, you bring some balance to bola tamers in the form of "risk vs. reward." If they want to try and dismount you and then sick their nightmare on you, they're going to have to deal with the fact that they can't easily pull their mare out of the fight at that point. Of course, you'll probably see a lot more of them anyway, if mares continue to have significantly more stamina than horses.

You'll also get more non-tamer players to join factions so they can get warhorses, also for the additional stamina.

More combat will end up on foot, which is great for several reasons. Off-screening is much more difficult. It's impossible to "fastwalk" a horse to abuse the client prediction... so this is good for dexers. The animations are better, so it's more fun to watch.

Of course, the purple potion issue would only be exacerbated, since running is the vital part of either "defense" that currently exists for GE pots (breaking LOS, and closing with the user). Therefore, this change should come paired with a significant nerf to purple potions.

And to nerf purple potions, there are a ton of options. I'm not saying to do all of these, but rather to choose one:

One.

- Increase the cooldown timer by a good 5 seconds. Purples shouldn't be any faster than yellows.

- Freeze the user in place (as a spell) while cooking off a purple potion.

- Institute a delay when the potion lands before it detonates, a la divinity, making them less effective against moving targets unless the user is good enough to throw in front of his mark.

- Reclassify the damage. Either make it physical so RA, parry, and armor work; or make it magical so resist (and maybe MR) does.

- Give them a chance to miss. Increase this chance if the user is running while he throws it.

In short, give them some kind of drawback like everything else has. And, return the AoE rules to the old ones. As they are now they're confusing, unbalancing, and illogical, all for the sake of letting a few morons haphazardly throw bombs around town in the presence of innocents. That's taking strategy out of the game, and dumbing it down. The current AoE rules suck.

This is the best idea that this thread has produced

but seriously, you people need to stop bitching... why is it that you feel the staff should not only accommodate to your personal style of play, but actually change the gameplay mechanics so that it is in your favor

generally they say if something isn't working, you try something else... but your idea seems to be if something isn't working for you it should be changed so that it does

why do we have to accommodate shitty players?

my style is to use exp corp corp dump, but its not working, I don't kill many people with it and they usually kill me when I do this, i've done it 10000 times with the same result

that means staff needs to revamp the spell timers and damage so that it works for me or nerf healing so I can kill people without gaining the skill normally required to pvp effectively

 

[LKP]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

This is the best idea that this thread has produced

but seriously, you people need to stop bitching... why is it that you feel the staff should not only accommodate to your personal style of play, but actually change the gameplay mechanics so that it is in your favor

generally they say if something isn't working, you try something else... but your idea seems to be if something isn't working for you it should be changed so that it does

why do we have to accommodate shitty players?

my style is to use exp corp corp dump, but its not working, I don't kill many people with it and they usually kill me when I do this, i've done it 10000 times with the same result

that means staff needs to revamp the spell timers and damage so that it works for me or nerf healing so I can kill people without gaining the skill normally required to pvp effectively

The problem with your example is this: There's a difference between a tactic that never worked, and one that's been changed. The area of effect rules are just that. Purple potions are very powerful. They used to be very risky to throw in crowded areas and towns. Now, there's no risk associated with them. It's also simply illogical that they produce the only kind of damage which is unclassified, which is why I suggested making them either magical or physical, or some combination thereof.

We also have to account for the fact that the game was made with 1997 technology, for 1997 technology. I used to play UO on a 36.6 kbps AOL connection, and an IBM Aptiva with a 200MHz processor, built-in graphics card, and maybe 64 megs of RAM. Of course, we all did. We didn't bother trying to disrupt each other with low-level spells because ping was often the better part of casting time. Now, when you play a shard with "T2A-style PvP" such as Divinity, you see nothing but magic arrows and harm spam between hally swings, not the explosions and energy bolts of old. I would like to see this so-called "hally-stalling" nerfed, to get closer to the substance of old school PvP.

Purple potions are no different. I believe we should first attempt to determine what the designers' intent was, and then defer to it. In the case of spell combos, it's fairly obvious that they were intentional: If melee was meant to be a stand-alone mode of combat, it wouldn't be automatic. You would need to click or press a button to swing your weapon, or interface with the game in some other way to control it. Instead, the designers chose to make melee combat happen automatically, leaving your hands free to move and use items, etc.

Purple potions are a little more vague. Because they simply were not used in real PvP in 1997 like they are now, we don't know how the original dev team would have changed them, if at all. I believe it's safe to assume, however, that they weren't thinking about third party programs like Razor when they designed them. The alchemy bonus to their damage, indeed the very thing that makes them so effective, is much newer, as well. This is also true of the area of effect rules. When I played OSI in the late 90's, the only way I saw purple potions used was by swarms of PK's taking out the entire bone knight wall in one go.

I think it's a safe bet that the designers never intended purple potions (or any other area effect) to hit only your enemies while ignoring friends and innocents, or they would have coded it this way from day one. I think the same is true of the amount of damage purple potions do.

Running away, as seems to be the only argument for heat-seeking explosion potions, was a non-issue in the old days when mounts fatigued over the course of a few screens when sprinting.

Because it's not possible, or at least not practical, to track down the original designers and find out what they would do in this situation, we're on our own. I think the majority agrees that the current situation is far from the optimal one, and something needs to be done.

I would like to stress once again though that if change should come, it should come very gradually. Let's not utterly destroy alchemy-based templates like what OSI did to the tank mage with UO:Renaissance. Let us instead weigh the alternatives and choose one course of action, or none at all, as what we have is imperfect but it is certainly not terrible either.

 

[orange thing]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

I agree. Explosion pots from day 1 have always been a black spot on pvp fighting. Once I see a pot go off when I'm fighting somebody, I seriously could care less to fight you any longer. Most times I'll casually walk away, healing myself just fine, as they try their hardest to drop me.

 

[orange thing]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

Nothing's perfect. You're right that we don't have a bad system. There's no reason to change it, at least with regards to Alchemy.

Nah, we definitely should. +1 for attempted input, though.

 

[Panthar]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

but the secondary programs arnt era accurate idiot. if there was no whinning there would be no t2a era we would have been fine with all the bugs and glitches that came with beta.i bet youd cry if the house rules were like they were in 97 .everyones houses would be on lockdown and then they would still get looted..

Yeah this is half the problem, now we have a bunch of pansies who sit in houses with nothing to lose, at least let me loot 1-2 items from containers that a friend/co-owner has access to(or SOMETHING like that).

They should realllly take out the retarded banning of people and let every house remove say 10 people an hour, this seems like a totally reasonable compromise to those who would complain and would only promote pvp.

As far as EXP pots:

1.)I find it completely retarded that my traditional T2A tank is UTTERLY useless against a alch mage, not even a chance: Vas Ort Flam, Kal Vas Flam 2... 1... lots and lots of skill there, I mean, lets see, if I don't press heal right at the EXACT right time, there is NO way to not die. This is the whole problem I got about .5 seconds to heal, and if I don't, I die.

2.)So what if people get town killed that was 1/2 the fun of the game, this server is not suppose to be trammel, you were technically not safe anywhere, but more safe in a guarded area.

3.)For any of you who "claim" pots were not used in t2a, must not of pked/pvped much or simply did not play. Granted, I used heals and cures MUCH more than exp pots, but on my red, I definately used them a few times, but not on any consistant basis due to HOW HARD IT WAS TO TARGET A MOVING TARGET w/ out LAST TARGET compared to NOW.

---

I don't OBJECT to purple pots 100%, I do however object to the fact that alchy skill gives heal/exp potions a bonus, and I object to the fact that exp pots and other spells like fire field/ ms are not area effect, that just takes away from the game, does not make it better as I can clearly see by how many people from this thread are on my side.

I also object to the macros people have, and the EASE of targeting a purple pot in todays UO, something needs to be done about this, period.

ideas/solutions:

1.)Give NO bonus to characters with alchemy skill, as alchemy should be what it was originally, a semi-mule skill, semi because you can't really make money selling pots back to vendors.

2.)lessen the damage by a few hp (assuming 1 is implemented), AND/OR Up the timer for exp pots to once every 10 seconds.

3.)Another good idea would be every time you use a exp potion, there is a 20% chance the explosion potion will fail and do damage to the person using it as soon as they double click the potion.

4.)Make pots and spells that were INTENDED to be AREA EFFECT, back to how they were intended.

5.)If someone has alchy skill, their magery in terms of both beneficial and offensive spells should be nerfed by a few HP per spell.

6.)Maybe do something like limiting how many purple potions you can carry on you?

--

Just trying to throw other ideas out there, I JUST want balance. However until this is worked out, sadly, either I will need alchy skill or I simply wont be able to compete on any fair basis.

 

[Ralcore]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

First of all, I want the hour I spent reading all of this bickering back.

Second, and this is just my two cents worth, but the way I see it, they will never change the explosion potion/AoE thing back to the way it was, and the reason why is fairly simple. It all comes down to the FACT that you can't please everyone all of the time. Why should they go through all of the trouble involved in changing it back, when half of us are going to be pissed either way? People wanted it changed, they did, and now people want it changed back. I'm not a GM or coder of course, but if I was, I would say fuck it. Why bother? To see the title on the rant threads changed? All of the time put into arguing about the purple pot problem could be better spent working on viable ways to fight against such tactics.

Anyways, just saying...

 

[hella]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

some weps hit full health

they hit full health off screen ?

 

[Sprint-]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

Why would you bring back this thread? I've stated it many times, if you think explosion potions are so damned over powered, I'm guessing you've never used one.

 

[Ankoku15]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

why the hell are people alot to throw explosion pots off the screen and stilll hit you. wtf is pvp for if people just run around throwing explo pots.. makes this shard fuking shitty

not sure why this is bumped AGAIN but i'll just respond to the op first

increase your game screen size they aren't off-screen there is just a large amount of the play area that is normally hidden...

and explosion pots tick for less damage less frequently then your average exceptional fencing weapon so wtf are you talking about overpowered?

not even going to mention archery which blows exp pots out of the water

its primarily a chasing and finishing skill so stop bitching that your not a good runner or that you can't run away every time that your losing in pvp, I often times run on a pure warrior with only gm in Fencing, tactics, anatomy, healing, hiding, resist, and 50/50 split between item id and magery and I am able to kill these "unfair" builds with a pretty decent success rate without even using magery or cure/heal pots

exp pots do what? 20-30 damage?
healing pots heal 20-30 health usually and cast faster then exp pots due to the random timer?

seeing a potential solution...?

1.)I find it completely retarded that my traditional T2A tank is UTTERLY useless against a alch mage, not even a chance: Vas Ort Flam, Kal Vas Flam 2... 1... lots and lots of skill there, I mean, lets see, if I don't press heal right at the EXACT right time, there is NO way to not die. This is the whole problem I got about .5 seconds to heal, and if I don't, I die.

OMG!!!!!!!!!! You need timing in an entirely timing based combat system!? SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!

2.)So what if people get town killed that was 1/2 the fun of the game, this server is not suppose to be trammel, you were technically not safe anywhere, but more safe in a guarded area.

3.)For any of you who "claim" pots were not used in t2a, must not of pked/pvped much or simply did not play. Granted, I used heals and cures MUCH more than exp pots, but on my red, I definately used them a few times, but not on any consistant basis due to HOW HARD IT WAS TO TARGET A MOVING TARGET w/ out LAST TARGET compared to NOW.



I don't OBJECT to purple pots 100%, I do however object to the fact that alchy skill gives heal/exp potions a bonus, and I object to the fact that exp pots and other spells like fire field/ ms are not area effect, that just takes away from the game, does not make it better as I can clearly see by how many people from this thread are on my side.

I also object to the macros people have, and the EASE of targeting a purple pot in todays UO, something needs to be done about this, period.

The concern over people being killed in town is that they are being killed in town... its fun for reds only ONLY and generally reduces the shard population vastly and keeps new players away from the game, this isn't YOUR game

and yea, its easy to use last target... its easy to use it with spells, with wands, items, and oh yea... just about everything in the entire damn game! why the hell is the complaint lodged exclusively against alchemy its the single most retarded complaint I have ever seen against it!

what do you do when your a mage? you hit a button to cast a spell, wait for the timer, then hit last target....
When your an alchy you do THE SAME DAMN THING you hit a button, wait for the timer, then hit last target
except with alchemy if you hit it too soon you lose the pot, too late and you hurt yourself

So yea, it actually takes MORE skill to use explosion pots then it does with most other skills

and your concept of taking away from the game seems to be a situation in which you can't freely kill someone by exploiting their AOE... that doesn't seem like much of a loss to me

ideas/solutions:

1.)Give NO bonus to characters with alchemy skill, as alchemy should be what it was originally, a semi-mule skill, semi because you can't really make money selling pots back to vendors.

2.)lessen the damage by a few hp (assuming 1 is implemented), AND/OR Up the timer for exp pots to once every 10 seconds.

3.)Another good idea would be every time you use a exp potion, there is a 20% chance the explosion potion will fail and do damage to the person using it as soon as they double click the potion.

4.)Make pots and spells that were INTENDED to be AREA EFFECT, back to how they were intended.

5.)If someone has alchy skill, their magery in terms of both beneficial and offensive spells should be nerfed by a few HP per spell.

6.)Maybe do something like limiting how many purple potions you can carry on you?

--

Just trying to throw other ideas out there, I JUST want balance. However until this is worked out, sadly, either I will need alchy skill or I simply wont be able to compete on any fair basis.

sigh... well aside from the fact that you want 10 second timers and to have explosion pots do 13-15 damage while having a failure rate and no bonuses to potions for gming alchemy... yea I think that all I gotta say here is thats a bad idea

I got some ideas/solutions of my own

1. Learn how to play the game, UO is a timing based game and one with a steep learning curve, if your losing its generally because your level of skill is not high enough. Imbalances are few and far apart with most being created BY us changing something

2. We will not remove explosion potions from pvp, so stop suggesting they be made useless or removed

3. If we remove the buffs for GM alchemy what do we replace them with? reduction to pot refresh timers? we aren't nerfing a skill out of use that would just be stupid and cause more harm then good

4. We don't need a failure rate, if you throw too late or too early you already miss or harm yourself

5. Why in God's name would having an additional skill nerf a completely separate skill? There is no reverse synergy in this game anywhere. Why don't you just say you want the alchemy template removed entirely from pvp?

6. There is already an item limit, if someone doesn't want to be able to loot items other then stack-ables or skip healing and cure pots to get more exp pots that is their choice, don't complain because a purely offensive build can over-power a well rounded build

7. You cannot read minds nor were you affiliated with the programming team and executives who had it created, therefore you are not qualified to state how explosion potions were intended to be used within the game

7. Stop crying... and quit bumping a dead topic...

 

[Fatality]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

lol

 

[Ankoku15]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

explosion pot do not ruin pvp it the tamer all kill no skill !

[e no

 

[FULLYAWAKENED]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

how do you throw the four or five explode pots at once? i was just attacked by someone who shall remain nameless that was able to toss about four pots at me at any given time. luckily the majority of them didnt connect

 

[Fishbone]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

I enjoyed reading this whole thread because thier were some decent arguments on both sides. Thier were also some shitty ones but what can you do? Im entertained by the young ones who want to talk about old-school pvp and what killed the game and whatnot. People talk about spamming eb eb eb eb, that was more towards 98 then 97. People talk about being "prepared", I used to run prepared with a pouch full of heal pots that had no timer and I could chug while shooting my bow. The game has changed many times over, and a lot of those changes were not for the better. I personally hated when they didnt allow me to poison my hally anymore, or chug my gheals nonestop, or even chug them while carrying a bow, but it wasnt really gamebreaking. I hated when they brought it Meditation and EI and anatomy, but I adapted and it wasnt really all that gamebreaking. I hated when they instituted runic weapons, and that wasnt even all that gamebreaking.
What I really hated was when they put it fast-cast and artifacts and weapons with unlimited lighting procs with it. That was gamebreaking. That allowed previously no skilled pvm freaks to become gods in a previously skill based game. I adapted and still hated it. You either had the items or you didnt and the pvp suffered for it.
Now on to the expo pots, not really liking them. Yeah its allowing a skill to be used in pvp and to effect gm runners a little more. But it is effecting the whole balance a whole lot more. Yeah it requires a bit of skill to do well with them, and it requires preperation to bring enough with you. It doesnt require mana to throw, it doesnt get disturbed, and I cant even cast a spell to neg the effects of it. I can either try the same tactics (isnt that a fun game lets all do the same shit to each other) or I can attempt other tactics and more often then not fail. Some changes are added to the game for the better and some for the worse. Just my feeling that this is for the worse. Not as bad as artifacts but still pretty game breaking.
And to all the people claiming it would nerf all the alche/whatever chars, its friggin hybrid, it takes maybe a day to make a new char. Boofrigginhoo.

 

[asdfjkl]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

I enjoyed reading this whole thread because thier were some decent arguments on both sides. Thier were also some shitty ones but what can you do? Im entertained by the young ones who want to talk about old-school pvp and what killed the game and whatnot. People talk about spamming eb eb eb eb, that was more towards 98 then 97. People talk about being "prepared", I used to run prepared with a pouch full of heal pots that had no timer and I could chug while shooting my bow. The game has changed many times over, and a lot of those changes were not for the better. I personally hated when they didnt allow me to poison my hally anymore, or chug my gheals nonestop, or even chug them while carrying a bow, but it wasnt really gamebreaking. I hated when they brought it Meditation and EI and anatomy, but I adapted and it wasnt really all that gamebreaking. I hated when they instituted runic weapons, and that wasnt even all that gamebreaking.
What I really hated was when they put it fast-cast and artifacts and weapons with unlimited lighting procs with it. That was gamebreaking. That allowed previously no skilled pvm freaks to become gods in a previously skill based game. I adapted and still hated it. You either had the items or you didnt and the pvp suffered for it.
Now on to the expo pots, not really liking them. Yeah its allowing a skill to be used in pvp and to effect gm runners a little more. But it is effecting the whole balance a whole lot more. Yeah it requires a bit of skill to do well with them, and it requires preperation to bring enough with you. It doesnt require mana to throw, it doesnt get disturbed, and I cant even cast a spell to neg the effects of it. I can either try the same tactics (isnt that a fun game lets all do the same shit to each other) or I can attempt other tactics and more often then not fail. Some changes are added to the game for the better and some for the worse. Just my feeling that this is for the worse. Not as bad as artifacts but still pretty game breaking.
And to all the people claiming it would nerf all the alche/whatever chars, its friggin hybrid, it takes maybe a day to make a new char. Boofrigginhoo.

+1+1+1

 

[Wussuru]

Re: Explosion pots ruin uogamers

I guess I'm not the first one to ask, has the staff commented this issue?