Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

[Veritas WKD]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

I never said that's what happened. But, I was merely stating that nobody sprouted from the ground.

 

[djstepanek]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

Does it matter really? The point was humans were not conjured up out of a rib, out of thin air, out of gods boogers, whatever.

 

[Veritas WKD]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

How exactly were people created then?

 

[djstepanek]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

Humans evolved.

How was life created should be the question, and that is the question nobody has an answer to. That is why it's hard to dismiss religion entirely. Science cannot yet explain how life first began.

Lets for a moment look to the stars. Better yet, lets look to our own solar system. Lets look even closer at a planet reachable by current technology, Mars. Mars meteorites have been found to contain life, a primitive algae it may be, but life may have formed on Mars around the same time it started on Earth(the meteorites are 4.5Byrs old, life on Earth started around the same time). Certain bacterial evidence remains on Mars today, we might not have found living organisms yet, but there probably used to be life. So the first place we look other than our home has life on it. What does that mean about the stars?

Now does that prove that there is no God? No. But life certainly did not originate on Earth, and humans certainly did not get conjured up from a dust cloud.

 

[zlatan fulgere]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

A big part of religion is fear.

If you don't honor the god or gods you go to hell, you will bring plagues, etc...

Yes, if the bible said we're screwed because of Adam and Eve, god exists and wishes us to believe in him and worship him but we're all going to hell regardless, how well would christianity really be doing today?

 

[djstepanek]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

Yes, if the bible said we're screwed because of Adam and Eve, god exists and wishes us to believe in him and worship him but we're all going to hell regardless, how well would christianity really be doing today?

Restate your question. Are you asking me how Christianity has lasted even though it says we are all doomed to hell from birth? Jesus came to forgive our sins, we are a ok as long as we follow the commandments and go to confession when we slip up. It's essentially an easy religion to follow.

 

[zlatan fulgere]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

I'm saying, if the message were different and we all went to hell even if we did as god wanted, would people still be doing it? I was agreeing with you that religion is fear driven by pointing out what would happen if you remove the way out of what we fear from a religion.

Edit: So, the question was rhetorical.

 

[Veritas WKD]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

Yes, if the bible said we're screwed because of Adam and Eve, god exists and wishes us to believe in him and worship him but we're all going to hell regardless, how well would christianity really be doing today?

If all you have read is the old Testament then yes that would be the case. But then you also wouldn't have the passion. You wouldn't have true repentance. You would also still have human/animal sacrifice in order for the "noble" to get to heaven.

The new Testament is where the current term of Salvation comes from. as I stated earlier by posting John 3:16-17. But the only real requirement to goto Heaven (according to the new Testament) is that you have accepted the sacrifice that Jesus made and believe with your heart that He is lord. Repentance, confession, tithing, baptism, and church are not required to get to Heaven. They are just suggestions to live a good Christian life.

 

[Veritas WKD]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

Restate your question. Are you asking me how Christianity has lasted even though it says we are all doomed to hell from birth? Jesus came to forgive our sins, we are a ok as long as we follow the commandments and go to confession when we slip up. It's essentially an easy religion to follow.

Going to confession is a catholic thing. And I really have a problem with catholisism. The worthip of mary over god. As well as saints kinda bothers me.

Exodus 20:3
"You shall have no other gods before [ Or besides ] me.

 

[djstepanek]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

I'm saying, if the message were different and we all went to hell even if we did as god wanted, would people still be doing it? I was agreeing with you that religion is fear driven by pointing out what would happen if you remove the way out of what we fear from a religion.

Edit: So, the question was rhetorical.

o :>

 

[zlatan fulgere]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

I know that's not the case, Veritas. It was a hypothetical situation.

 

[Cebrious Arcane]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

I <3 Elton. Great post, though I think the numbers are skewed for many reasons. One being, of course, that many people would call themselves "Christian" but don't practice Christianity. Location, sample size, and the various other reasons that have been brought up.

Statistics are good for one thing and one thing only, starting conversations.

Going to confession is a catholic thing. And I really have a problem with catholisism. The worthip of mary over god. As well as saints kinda bothers me.

Exodus 20:3
"You shall have no other gods before [ Or besides ] me.

I love how you backup your points, so I'll suspend derogatory terms about God so we can continue our conversation this time.

First, Catholics don't worship Mary over God, but they acknowledge that she was involved in the immaculate conception. The Hail Mary is a brief prayer and is overshadowed by the Our Father. It's surprising that you "have a problem with Catholicism" when all of Christianity came from Catholicism which came from Judeism.

To accept Jesus is to accept his sacrifice for your sins. That's the same as confession, you just don't voice it to a priest and the priest doesn't give you penance to clear your conscience. In Catholicism noone is higher than God, but the saints go back to the multi-deistic foundations that Judeism, and in turn, Catholicism was founded on. Meaning prayers are said to the specific saints for assistance with specific tasks, but none are higher than God. Besides that, praying to the saints is praying to God because God is infinite so everything and everyone is him, right? Ah, one of those great paradoxes.

Aside from the paradox of the first and second commandments, my question is, If we are created by God, are we just entertainment? What's the point? God was lonely in heaven and needed company? God needed people to worship him to feel good? What could possibly be the benefit and motivation for creating all of this, other than entertainment? And why would an omnipotent God need or want any of it? I know you "can't think as if you were God" and "God works in mysterious ways" but honestly take a step back and ponder on it for a minute and let me know what you think.

To all you scientists:

Science is the religion of the egomaniac. You believe in the aspects of science that have not yet been proven. You believe in those more knowledgable that what they say is true. You believe that the definitions provided by science are correct and accurate and you use those definitions to define your own reality. How is that any different from a religion? Don't bolster your egos by labeling believers of religion as less than you, or stupider than you, they just choose a different system of belief - one that is no greater or less than your choice.

 

[kio123]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

I <3 Elton. Great post, though I think the numbers are skewed for many reasons. One being, of course, that many people would call themselves "Christian" but don't practice Christianity. Location, sample size, and the various other reasons that have been brought up.

Statistics are good for one thing and one thing only, starting conversations.


I love how you backup your points, so I'll suspend derogatory terms about God so we can continue our conversation this time.

First, Catholics don't worship Mary over God, but they acknowledge that the she was involved in the immaculate conception. The Hail Mary is a brief prayer and is overshadowed by the Our Father. It's surprising that you "have a problem with Catholicism" when all of Christianity came from Catholicism which came from Judeism.

To accept Jesus is to accept his sacrifice for your sins. That's the same as confession, you just don't voice it to a priest and the priest doesn't give you penance to clear your conscience. In Catholicism noone is higher than God, but the saints go back to the multi-deistic foundations that Judeism, and in turn, Catholicism was founded on. Meaning prayers are said to the specific saints for assistance with specific tasks, but none are higher than God. Besides that, praying to the saints is praying to God because God is infinite so everything and everyone is him, right? Ah, one of those great paradoxes.

Aside from the paradox of the first and second commandments, my question is, If we are created by God, are we just entertainment? What's the point? God was lonely in heaven and needed company? God needed people to worship him to feel good? What could possibly be the benefit and motivation for creating all of this, other than entertainment? And why would an omnipotent God need or want any of it? I know you "can't think as if you were God" and "God works in mysterious ways" but honestly take a step back and ponder on it for a minute and let me know what you think.

To all you scientists:

Science is the religion of the egomaniac. You believe in the aspects of science that have not yet been proven. You believe in those more knowledgable that what they say is true. You believe that the definitions provided by science are correct and accurate and you use those definitions to define your own reality. How is that any different from a religion? Don't bolster your egos by labeling believers of religion as less than you, or stupider than you, they just choose a different system of belief - one that is no greater or less than your choice.

this is the problem with christianity. they worship a god and call him God. they dont understand Allah. they dont worship the force that is behind all the scenes and has infinite power. they say God has infinite power so they dont make him upset. not that they truly believe it.

saints, mary, jesus.. god doesnt need any of them. god doesnt need worshippers. we worship to save ourselves. god does us a favor by telling us to worship him.

"Science is the religion of the egomaniac" science and religion cannot be put into same aspect. science and politics can. like the word-religion and popular science everything is a tool to politics which is the tool of the art of lying

in conclusion... religion is very very very private. dont listen to someone elses advice how to worship and how not to

 

[Cebrious Arcane]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

science and religion cannot be put into same aspect. science and politics can.

Why?

 

[Sir Elton John]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

Science is the religion of the egomaniac. You believe in the aspects of science that have not yet been proven. You believe in those more knowledgable that what they say is true. You believe that the definitions provided by science are correct and accurate and you use those definitions to define your own reality. How is that any different from a religion? Don't bolster your egos by labeling believers of religion as less than you, or stupider than you, they just choose a different system of belief - one that is no greater or less than your choice.

oh yeah

i dont understand how anyone can base their beliefs on something they havent even begun to understand or take an effort to learn

blind belief is a terrible thing and it hurts both science and religion immensely

 

[Veritas WKD]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

I <3 Elton. Great post, though I think the numbers are skewed for many reasons. One being, of course, that many people would call themselves "Christian" but don't practice Christianity. Location, sample size, and the various other reasons that have been brought up.

Statistics are good for one thing and one thing only, starting conversations.


I love how you backup your points, so I'll suspend derogatory terms about God so we can continue our conversation this time.

First, Catholics don't worship Mary over God, but they acknowledge that the she was involved in the immaculate conception. The Hail Mary is a brief prayer and is overshadowed by the Our Father. It's surprising that you "have a problem with Catholicism" when all of Christianity came from Catholicism which came from Judeism.

To accept Jesus is to accept his sacrifice for your sins. That's the same as confession, you just don't voice it to a priest and the priest doesn't give you penance to clear your conscience. In Catholicism noone is higher than God, but the saints go back to the multi-deistic foundations that Judeism, and in turn, Catholicism was founded on. Meaning prayers are said to the specific saints for assistance with specific tasks, but none are higher than God. Besides that, praying to the saints is praying to God because God is infinite so everything and everyone is him, right? Ah, one of those great paradoxes.

Aside from the paradox of the first and second commandments, my question is, If we are created by God, are we just entertainment? What's the point? God was lonely in heaven and needed company? God needed people to worship him to feel good? What could possibly be the benefit and motivation for creating all of this, other than entertainment? And why would an omnipotent God need or want any of it? I know you "can't think as if you were God" and "God works in mysterious ways" but honestly take a step back and ponder on it for a minute and let me know what you think.

To all you scientists:

Science is the religion of the egomaniac. You believe in the aspects of science that have not yet been proven. You believe in those more knowledgable that what they say is true. You believe that the definitions provided by science are correct and accurate and you use those definitions to define your own reality. How is that any different from a religion? Don't bolster your egos by labeling believers of religion as less than you, or stupider than you, they just choose a different system of belief - one that is no greater or less than your choice.

Deuteronomy 4:24
For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

Having anyone even held on the same playing field as god would be something not good.

And on the second statement I have emboldened.

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

For us to get to Heaven we must be pure. God gave us the ability to commit sin. He did not condemn us to it. We are here to for a loving relationship with God as a loving father and friend. Not as an omnipotent being.

Psalms 86:15
But you, O Lord, are a compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness.

John 3:16-17
1"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

If we were only here for entertaining purposes why could God send his ONLY son to earth to die? When I think of the crusifixion it brings tears to my eyes.

Matthew 27:45-56
45From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. 46About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[c] lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"[d]

47When some of those standing there heard this, they said, "He's calling Elijah."

48Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink. 49The rest said, "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to save him."

50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

54When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son[e] of God!"

55Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. 56Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons.

Sorry it took me so long to post. I am at work so skimming the bible and making an intelligent post takes me a while. My workload is a bit obscene at the moment.

A bit more. I thought I would add the verses about the Crusifixion

Matthew 27:32-44
32As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross. 33They came to a place called Golgotha (which means The Place of the Skull). 34There they offered Jesus wine to drink, mixed with gall; but after tasting it, he refused to drink it. 35When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots. 36And sitting down, they kept watch over him there. 37Above his head they placed the written charge against him: THIS IS JESUS, THE KING OF THE JEWS. 38Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. 39Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads 40and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!"

41In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42"He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.' " 44In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

 

[Cebrious Arcane]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

Deuteronomy 4:24
For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

Having anyone even held on the same playing field as god would be something not good.

They're not. God put them on that playing field. They didn't put themselves there. No saint, after Satan/The Devil/Lucifer/Beelzebub/etc, tries to be better than God. God created the choirs of angels and saints the same way he created humanity. They don't compete. Why would God, the creator, create beings he was going to be jealous of?

Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

For us to get to Heaven we must be pure. God gave us the ability to commit sin. He did not condemn us to it. We are here to for a loving relationship with God as a loving father and friend. Not as an omnipotent being.

God didn't condemn us to sin, but Adam and Eve sure did. That's why Jesus was sacrificed. By accepting Jesus and the resurrection you accept forgiveness for original sin, everything else is on your head. Now why would God condemn all who were birthed by Adam and Eve, all of humanity, to suffer the consequences of their bad choice?

Psalms 86:15
But you, O Lord, are a compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness.

This pretty much contradicts the Deuterotomy "jealous god" scripture. Jealousy and compassion do not compliment each other.

John 3:16-17
1"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

If we were only here for entertaining purposes why could God send his ONLY son to earth to die? When I think of the crusifixion it brings tears to my eyes.

Why would he only have one son, why would it be a challenge to make one son, what's the point of sacrificing your son in the world you create for him to return to the heaven you created? It seems like watching an ant farm, then giving one ant a red stripe, then killing that one ant. Then you watch the rest of the ants continue doing what they do, unaffected. The entire world is God's son. All of existence is a product of God's intelligent design, just like Jesus. To say it was a sacrifice for God to give up his only son seems hypocritical on every level.

Matthew 27:45-56
45From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land. 46About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi,[c] lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"[d]

What? I need to grab a Bible because Jesus blaspheming is a new one for me. Taking the Lord's name in vain? I don't think so. Mistranslation at best.

47When some of those standing there heard this, they said, "He's calling Elijah."

Which version of the Bible do you read? Elijah brought a dead boy to life, raided Israel and killed some priests of Baal. How does "god" become "elijah"?

48Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink. 49The rest said, "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to save him."

50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

54When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son[e] of God!"

Religion serves to define reality. People believe what they want to believe and see what they want to see. This is proven in your quote. Any other observer could have defined that situation a different way.

Matthew 27:32-44
32As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross. 33They came to a place called Golgotha (which means The Place of the Skull). 34There they offered Jesus wine to drink, mixed with gall; but after tasting it, he refused to drink it. 35When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots. 36And sitting down, they kept watch over him there. 37Above his head they placed the written charge against him: THIS IS JESUS, THE KING OF THE JEWS. 38Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. 39Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads 40and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!"

41In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42"He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.' " 44In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

It's a story. The reader is meant to pity Jesus at it's conclusion, then rejoice upon his resurrection and ascension into Heaven. It's a literary masterpiece because it's so easy to follow, but if you step back, you see that it is full of holes. It leaves the believer saying, "Yes, Jesus does not serve the tauting disbelievers, he serves God and gives himself willingly to God's design." And it leaves the disbeliever saying, "See, he didn't come down from the cross but if he did all those people would have believed in him."

You say we are here to treat God as a father and friend, but why would God need either of those? Is he insecure? I truly do not understand how God, an intelligent, jealous, merciful, compassionate, wrathful, infallible, entity could need or want anything. How is it not purely for entertainment? If it's not a game... what is it? I mean think about that. Even the concept of Heaven and Hell is game-like. God put The Devil on the same playing field as himself when that was The Devil's goal all along. So rather than doing any number of things, God made The Devil his equal.

 

[Underwater Ape]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

God is for *you* personally to find and figure out. no religion will do it for you. the bible is just a tool. i wouldn't hold stock in it. the story of christ is amazing. it doesn't need to have really happened to touch someone or inspire someone.

if you don't look for love you may never find it. the same can be said about God.

 

[Sir Elton John]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

If we were only here for entertaining purposes why could God send his ONLY son to earth to die? When I think of the crusifixion it brings tears to my eyes.

If heaven is such a wonderful place then how is being crucified such a big sacrifice?

 

[zlatan fulgere]

Re: Newsweek poll: Americans believe in God, reject evolution

They're not. God put them on that playing field. They didn't put themselves there. No saint, after Satan/The Devil/Lucifer/Beelzebub/etc, tries to be better than God. God created the choirs of angels and saints the same way he created humanity. They don't compete. Why would God, the creator, create beings he was going to be jealous of?

Alright, if you say a "hail Mary", can Mary hear you? If so, how?

What? I need to grab a Bible because Jesus blaspheming is a new one for me. Taking the Lord's name in vain? I don't think so. Mistranslation at best.

I don't think it's "in vain" if you're actually talking to god. If you smack your thumb with a hammer and yell out, "God damnit!!", that's taking his name in vain because god won't damn a hammer to hell therefore it's an invalid request.

To all you scientists:

Science is the religion of the egomaniac. You believe in the aspects of science that have not yet been proven. You believe in those more knowledgable that what they say is true. You believe that the definitions provided by science are correct and accurate and you use those definitions to define your own reality. How is that any different from a religion? Don't bolster your egos by labeling believers of religion as less than you, or stupider than you, they just choose a different system of belief - one that is no greater or less than your choice.

I have evidence from the bits of science I can practically test myself. The things I learn of others testing I can evaluate as reasonable from that evidence. Many things haven't been explained because we're still working twords the explanation, not because we're expected to go off of blind faith and that's it as religion wants us to do.

There are similarities between science and religion if you look only at the surface.