Hello, Stat Gain!

[Kraz]

What serious things to work and fix are going to matter if the population continues to decline because we're using an outdated stat-gain system?

- Conflagration bugged pot;
- Champions shouldn't leave the altar range and coon run away from players;
- Gauntlet Point System;
- Monsters AI;
- Mondains Legacy Quest System.

Looks like staff is already working on some of that, we just gotta wait and see.
Stats gain will never be a priority o0.

 

[Chaos_Lord]

The stat gains are WICKEDLY SLOW....Just came back from a 3 year Hiatus and find that by the time ill have 700 skill points, I'll only have 110 stat points...that is extremely unbalanced...I know about the arms lore/camping stat gain but for the sake of balance and the sanity of newer players (that dont know the camping trick) it should be fixed....

 

[hickman48]

ppl are just working on new toons are sad its taking more than a day to get them ready

 

[Chaos_Lord]

Hickman: It tales a few days to macro a mage, but if your new you need an LRC suit...that would be a feat to macro to 7x and collect an LRC suit in a single day....

 

[hickman48]

Hickman: It tales a few days to macro a mage, but if your new you need an LRC suit...that would be a feat to macro to 7x and collect an LRC suit in a single day....

with the use of easy uo if you train up the right skills first leave the easy ones for lasting eval and rs, it takes 4 hours-6 hours to train up a new spawner iv seen a lot of stupidly cheap lrc starter suits on vendors for 30k iv seen some with 2/6 for 50k

 

[Two Wolves]

We aren't losing members from stat gains. We lose people because once you gain a decent toon, there is nothing else to keep busy with. We don't really gain stuff as fast as osi, nor do we have non standard events for going on a year or so.

I'm not complaining, I still chill here. That is the primary reason is all. People just get bored -_-

Shards always loose members. Attracting and retaining new members needs to keep up with attrition. Needing to rush through skill gain to get to the point where one can work on stats, is not intuitive for players new to the shard or new to UO.

 

[Aegian Rayth]

Shards always loose members. Attracting and retaining new members needs to keep up with attrition. Needing to rush through skill gain to get to the point where one can work on stats, is not intuitive for players new to the shard or new to UO.

Which is exactly why stat gain should be altered to more closely mirror the skill gain system that, in my opinion, is just right.

 

[Ketish]

I think this is the 5th or 12th thread about stat gains,.. it's on their list people.

On a Side Note:
The ability to have a 7x 225 toon in less then 3 days is crazy(bad)

We are all just throw away puppets...

The only skills that cant be gm'd in less then 3 days in a 7x template are taming, and all of the crafting skills combined.
i've made multiple characters which i've funded with ***s (which any new player can do) and as i stated they achieved 7x 225 with dedicated macroing in less then 2-3 days play time.(non afk)

so in short... a person could have the potential to have 3 (7x 225) characters and ~10 mill+ gold within their first week of playing.
(dedication and lack of sleep. Also 90% of the time, their characters won't move during this period of time)

 

[Two Wolves]

That is of no help to beginners who work up their skills, and get no stat rewards to show for the effort. By the time skills are finished, the stats are far from cap, as ntk says.

 

[Nottheking]

That is of no help to beginners who work up their skills, and get no stat rewards to show for the effort.

They get skill gains to show for their effort.

TBH I've not had that much difficulty with stat gains. It's true that they're far from capped when the skills get capped, but it hasn't taken me a whole lot longer to cap them out beyond that.

 

[Eskeshehir]

I've completed a 7xGM necromage in 26 hours. I can see where it would suck if you used one of the Skillball reccommended skills but I don't see where the problem is here... This would be different if it was some newbie trying to work up maybe, but it's bile working some bola tossing alt, like he doesnt have the soulstones/suit/macros/knowledge to spiff this up :/

 

[Two Wolves]

There are two problems:
Since the stat gains are 'random' what you end up with is stats that are a mess, instead of stats that reflect what skills you have been training.

Other than knowing the arms lore 'trick' (as we call it) and macroing it in a dedicated way - moving stats once skills are capped, is even more difficult than while training.

[Edit] And Ketish reminds us, don't forget the bugs:
Stat gain going into a stat that is locked, being lost - rather than going into the secondary stat.

Stats that lower by being drained, before hitting the stat cap,
http://www.runuo.com/community/threads/duplicate-potential-stat-gain-glitch.454202/

Stats that lower by being drained, when the skill pointed up is at the individual cap.

 

[Ketish]

as two wolves said since stat gains are random,.. If you lock a stat it is still possible that, that particular stat will gain but since it's locked you wont gain anything.

 

[Nottheking]

This would be different if it was some newbie trying to work up maybe, but it's bile working some bola tossing alt, like he doesnt have the soulstones/suit/macros/knowledge to spiff this up :/

True, but also for a newbie, are they really going to MISS those 100-odd skillpoints?

• Everyone should keep in mind most brand-new players are NOT going to hit 7xGM correctly first; they'll have a mishmash of random skills that they'll need way more than 26 hours of play to smooth out.
• Secondly, a character isn't absolutely crippled by having their skills at GM, but not their stats; they can still go out and do things, just not QUITE as well as a fully-loaded 225-stat build. I mean, if you're making a necro-mage spawner or gauntlet char, you often don't even need the 7xGM to start.
• Furthermore, while having only 100-150 stats at 7x might hinder one's performance, so would having newbie gear; should new players be given 3/4/5-mod suits and artifacts as soon as they hit 7xGM, too? The answer's obviously no; that last bit of character scaling comes much more slowly. Obviously since no one's complaining on this, it's as you said, Eske; just older players whining that they (who already HAVE the spare suits) can't insta-build a 100% complete alt without buying a statball.

There are two problems: Since the stat gains are random and not tied to specific skills, what you end up with is stats that are a mess, instead of stats that reflect what skills you have been training.

Um... No, just NO. It's well-known that stat gains are based on what skills you select. The only reason you've likely never seen the script is because it's not in the scripts; it's in the dreaded core. Specifically, Skills.cs; there's a text-based table about halfway through the document that describes the comparative gains rate; you can't miss it.

Specifically, each skill is assigned a "scale factor" that determine its likelihood of it raising a particular stat; of course, for a lot of these, a skill won't raise one or more particular stats. This is the whole reason for the "Arms Lore" trick: it's the only easily-macro skill that anyone can readily use anywhere to gain in all three stats, even if the DEX and INT gains are pretty terrible off of them. (Camping only works if you're standing still and an elf; similarly, others like herding require other mobiles nearby)

 

[Bile]

True, but also for a newbie, are they really going to MISS those 100-odd skillpoints?

• Everyone should keep in mind most brand-new players are NOT going to hit 7xGM correctly first; they'll have a mishmash of random skills that they'll need way more than 26 hours of play to smooth out.
• Secondly, a character isn't absolutely crippled by having their skills at GM, but not their stats; they can still go out and do things, just not QUITE as well as a fully-loaded 225-stat build. I mean, if you're making a necro-mage spawner or gauntlet char, you often don't even need the 7xGM to start.
• Furthermore, while having only 100-150 stats at 7x might hinder one's performance, so would having newbie gear; should new players be given 3/4/5-mod suits and artifacts as soon as they hit 7xGM, too? The answer's obviously no; that last bit of character scaling comes much more slowly. Obviously since no one's complaining on this, it's as you said, Eske; just older players whining that they (who already HAVE the spare suits) can't insta-build a 100% complete alt without buying a statball.

Thanks for showing how dumb you can be. You think Esk knows me and knows what I may or may not be doing? Do you believe whatever someone tells you?

Look how pitiful this fuck can be;
*Me, really mining? How sad of a person can you be to boast about imaginary shit to random people?

 

[Two Wolves]

oic "Arms Lore" uses 0.75, 0.15, 0.1 weighted in favor of StrGain. Thanks for that link.

Still, Arms Lore should have Primary= Int, Secondary= Str with 75% chance for primary stat and 25% chance for secondary. Makes it look like 0.0, 0.75, 0.25 not 0.75, 0.15, 0.1

According to, http://www.runuo.com/community/threads/testing-stat-gain-accuracy.410036/page-2#post-3356306

 

[Nottheking]

Thanks for showing how dumb you really are. You think Esk knows me and knows what I may or may not be doing? Do you believe whatever someone tells you?

Relax; I was simply using it as a theoretical example. I was noting that everyone complaining has had accounts on Demise for years, and suggesting what the complaints were really about. I didn't mean to specify one way or another whether his outright acusation was true or not; it is rather funny that he'd claimed he spotted you mining. We all knew that if you really wanted ore that badly, you'd just load down a castle with ore cards.

Still, Arms Lore should have Primary= Int, Secondary= Str with 75% chance for primary stat and 25% chance for secondary

As I recall, that was a simplification/balance patch that was added around the era of Mondain's Legacy. Certainly, we will get it in, but we can't get all of ML simultaneously. The development team needed to prioritize, and work on things in order to match.

And the player base, as I recall, was most vociferous about getting Cu Sidhes and ML artifacts above all else; balance issues were quite back-burner. Coincidentally, what ML content do we have on the server now?

 

[Ketish]

Um... No, just NO. It's well-known that stat gains are based on what skills you select.

Bold statement for something that's obvious and is not implemented yet.
I think he was referring to how things are working now.

Whether it's better to use one skill over another for stat gains is pointless. How it is currently working, people overnight macro fast skills like Armslore and use other scripts to lock their stats at the point they want them.
-
An alternative is to create a character with the max lowest stat, lock it and go through the over night macro process and wake up to two stats fighting each other for gains.
Example: new character with 25 DEX > lock DEX > macro over night > high STR and INT when you wake up

In my Opinion, regarding the first post.. i think people should only get 1 - 3 stat gains A DAY, but i also think it should take you a minimum of 4 weeks to 7x gm.
(don't hate me for my opinion)

 

[Nottheking]

Overall opinion-wise, I do think stat gains should perhaps be improved; at the very least, the outright 15-minute cooldown's kinda silly. However, I do NOT want it to be like OSI where you can hit 225-255 stats well before you hit 7xGM. For one, remember that all skill gains are way faster on Demise; making an overnight 7xGM on OSI just doesn't plain happen. I don't think that skill gains should be accelerated from the way they are on *OSI*. Just faster than on here.

And something that just occurred to me: the disparity between skill/stat maxing times with a new char only really stand out for one that's just AFK'ed up, as AFK'ing yields the fastest skill gains. By comparison, players new to the shard/UO itself will not want to do that, and instead use the "conventional" methods, as they tend to want to experience the early game, rather than rushing straight for the endgame. I noticed, watching a number of new players, that the time they hit 7xGM takes a LONG time, but because they're not making a skill gain every 2-5 seconds, their stat gain rates are actually kind of keeping pace.

I'm not saying that the cap shouldn't be removed, but in all rationality, we should recognize that it's us older, more experienced players that will benefit from this way more than the newbies, who likely wouldn't even notice.

Bold statement for something that's obvious and is not implemented yet.
I think he was referring to how things are working now.

Except that the gains are not random now, either. The "fixed" system in the works is almost identical to now, with the only actual difference being the removal of the 15-minute cooldown. That whole "primary/secondary" crap will look exactly the same in the script: just instead of various numbers, each skill will always have a 0.75, a 0.25, and a 0.00.

 

[Two Wolves]

Yes, but on Demise Stat gain is throttled differently than Skill gains. Which may actually be the heart of the issue of why Stats end up so far behind. Stat gain is in-effect 1/40 instead of 1/20 here.

http://www.runuo.com/community/threads/testing-stat-gain-accuracy.410036/page-2#post-3356298
According to psz: I think it was decided, waaaay back, to accelerate the skill gain to <x> and to accelerate the stat gain to 1/2 <x>