9/11 Moment of silence

[woodycook]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

You are right evilchild, but those buildings did not completely collapse into their own footprint as was the case with building 7.

Look at this image here;
Building 1 and 2 were struck with planes and collapsed. Building 7 was not hit by any plane, and still collapsed. Building 3 and 6 although suffering significant damage.... did not collapse.
View attachment 30589

If you view the image below, take a look at the right and notice that Building 7 is over 300 feet from the nearest wall of the North tower. It is also just as far away from the twin towers as many other buildings in NYC.
View attachment 30590

"Numerous witnesses say the possibility of demolishing Building 7 was widely discussed by emergency personnel at the scene and advocated by the building’s owner." Taken from http://buildingwhat.org/7-facts-about-building-7/

Remember, a lot of the "9-11 truthers" we have today are the firefighters that were there on that day that said they heard explosions from the basement.

Months after September 11th there were still "rivers" of molten steel underneath the remains. Even the official story reports that the fires did not get hot enough to melt steel. The molten steel was confirmed by New Jersey’s Task Force One, NYPD, Firefighters, the head of a team of scientists studying the potential health effects of 9/11, rescue workers, engineers, scientists, witnesses, and public health advisors. Are all these people who have nothing to gain lying?

 

[bacchus1234]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

The way the WTC was constructed, the main structure holding up the building was the shell, not the internal metal. When the planes crashed into it, they torn a huge hole in the outside support structure. This is what was trying to hold up the upper 10ish floors, and finally collapsed. Here is a nice engineering example for you. Take an empty coke can and stand on it. If you balance on it, it can and will support your weight. Now have a friend gently push in the side a little. As soon and the side is damaged, the can will collapse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvCXjslqctw

Those explosions and glass blowing out on the lower floors that you see could easily be caused by the air being pushed down and out of the building. When the top sections began to collapse, where else is the air inside the building to go?

Terrorists attempted to take down the WTC before, in 1993. They attemped to place explosives at the base structure on what they thought were the support beams.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing They then went back to the drawing board and came up with a better plan.

The WTC bombing was only one of many reasons for the war in Iraq (which I personally did not agree with). The original reasoning for the war was that Saddam Hussen was not letting UN inspectors into their manufactoring facilities. The US threatened a number of times and a number of months saying, if you continue to keep the inspectors out, we will bring in military forces to inspect. So, although the WTC bombing was the catalyst for the invasion, it was not the primary reason.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[bacchus1234]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

I agree with you on that, but there have only been 3 steel structured buildings in the history of mankind to ever fail and collapse because of fire. Those building are WTC 1, 2, and 7. There are other steel buildings that have burnt for over a week straight, at much hotter temperatures and did not collapse.


Today's black ops are compartmentalized.

Everything is on a need to know basis. Many people could have been involved without being aware of it at all.

For example:

Alpha 1 is required to research the WTC to find weak points in the structure in order to "defend against terrorism"

Alpha 2 is required to create explosives that could take down a steel structure "for military purposes in a foreign country"

Alpha 3 is required to leave explosive packages in location A

Alpha 4 is required to relocate packages (unknowing of contents) to certain areas of the WTC.

One could be Army, another CIA. (just examples)

The paper trail is all held inside building 7 (The CIA actually had a branch in WTC7), which also has packages inside.

September 11th rolls around... Everyone is in shock at what happens. Nobody knew and never found out that they were involved. WTC 7 crumbles with the evidence.

END EXAMPLE

Not one computer or even keyboard was recovered from the debris. The contents of the WTC were literally turned to dust.

Now what seems more likely? An elaberate plan as above, or terrorist try to take down the WTC in 1993 and fail. They read a Tom Clancey novel and come up the idea to use planes full of jet fuel as missiles and fly them into the upper 1/2 of the buildings? The above conveniently has NO evidence left and the second has plenty of evidence.

I also have to say, I for one, love a good conspiracy theory. Especially those that do have evidence. BTW, Paul is DEAD! (Not Paul Mr Dank)

 

[woodycook]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

The way the WTC was constructed, the main structure holding up the building was the shell, not the internal metal. When the planes crashed into it, they torn a huge hole in the outside support structure. This is what was trying to hold up the upper 10ish floors, and finally collapsed. Here is a nice engineering example for you. Take an empty coke can and stand on it. If you balance on it, it can and will support your weight. Now have a friend gently push in the side a little. As soon and the side is damaged, the can will collapse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvCXjslqctw

Those explosions and glass blowing out on the lower floors that you see could easily be caused by the air being pushed down and out of the building. When the top sections began to collapse, where else is the air inside the building to go?

Terrorists attempted to take down the WTC before, in 1993. They attemped to place explosives at the base structure on what they thought were the support beams.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_bombing They then went back to the drawing board and came up with a better plan.

The WTC bombing was only one of many reasons for the war in Iraq (which I personally did not agree with). The original reasoning for the war was that Saddam Hussen was not letting UN inspectors into their manufactoring facilities. The US threatened a number of times and a number of months saying, if you continue to keep the inspectors out, we will bring in military forces to inspect. So, although the WTC bombing was the catalyst for the invasion, it was not the primary reason.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Although it sounds good, it doesn't explain WTC 7 or the molten steel. These are only questions about the towers themselves. We have a whole slew of other questions about the Pentagon, and about the planes such as the one that crashed in Shanksville.

 

[woodycook]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

Now what seems more likely? An elaberate plan as above, or terrorist try to take down the WTC in 1993 and fail. They read a Tom Clancey novel and come up the idea to use planes full of jet fuel as missiles and fly them into the upper 1/2 of the buildings? The above conveniently has NO evidence left and the second has plenty of evidence.

I also have to say, I for one, love a good conspiracy theory. Especially those that do have evidence. BTW, Paul is DEAD! (Not Paul Mr Dank)

You think the terrorists read a Tom Clancy novel?

 

[bacchus1234]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

You think the terrorists read a Tom Clancy novel?

I believe you are purposely taking that as a quote instead of trying to understand the intent of that statement.

No they probably did not get it from Tom Clancey. The point is that Tom Clancey thought of it, the idea is in his novel Debt of Honor (1994). In other words, the idea has been around longer than 9/11.

So, if you cannot blow up a building from the bottom up, why not from the top down. Short of a tomahawk, what else can you use to penetrate a structure such as the WTC, and at a reasonable height? Of course, in hind sight, it is an easy answer. But, if you had 8 years to plan it, could you come up with the solution of an airplane? Keep in mind, Tom Clancey was able to come up with the idea of using a plane.

 

[Daywolf]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

The original reasoning for the war was that Saddam Hussen was not letting UN inspectors into their manufactoring facilities. The US threatened a number of times and a number of months saying, if you continue to keep the inspectors out, we will bring in military forces to inspect.

Actually it started with the invasion of Kuwait. Rather than invasion into Iraq, Iraq accepted terms which included inspections. Clinton let it slip under his watch, France and Germany were making deals on food for oil with Iraq (subservience) and when Bush got in he would not continue Clinton's re-directive. After the second WTC attack (as you pointed out), the invasion of Iraq was a continuation of the hostilities already in place and a general stepping stone into the middle-east. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, that's just the events. I will say though, I don't agree with nation building in that region, especially in the Afgh due to some very unsettling reasons that are just too disturbing to mention here.

As for WTC, I don't dog on truthers, they are entitled to their opinion, but still no bit of evidence with how they got so much explosive power into the buildings in such a very-very secretive way. I see that as just impossible to do w/o some leak of information by those who placed it, someone. If it had been a nuclear device, sure it could have been kept secret, but anything else would have been a very huge job with the probability of keeping it secret for a decade just zip. Of course there are some screwed up peeps out there on both sides of that issue leading with agendas over anything else.

As for topic, yes moment of silence definitely observed.

 

[woodycook]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

I believe you are purposely taking that as a quote instead of trying to understand the intent of that statement.

No they probably did not get it from Tom Clancey. The point is that Tom Clancey thought of it, the idea is in his novel Debt of Honor (1994). In other words, the idea has been around longer than 9/11.

So, if you cannot blow up a building from the bottom up, why not from the top down. Short of a tomahawk, what else can you use to penetrate a structure such as the WTC, and at a reasonable height? Of course, in hind sight, it is an easy answer. But, if you had 8 years to plan it, could you come up with the solution of an airplane? Keep in mind, Tom Clancey was able to come up with the idea of using a plane.

The threat of terrorism directed at the WTC is not a new thing. Take a look at this June 99' cover:
View attachment 30600

 

[bacchus1234]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

We must remember that during the manhattan project we had an entire city of Americans working on the Atomic bomb in secrecy, and the secret was never exposed until it was declassified.

This is not true. Declassified USSR documents show that the Soviets knew about the Manhattan project as early as 1941.
http://www.cfo.doe.gov/me70/manhattan/espionage.htm

Nixons aides could not break into a hotel room without everyone finding out. Bill Clinton could not get a blow job in the privacy of the oval office without everyone finding out. The secrecy that people give the government if overrated.

 

[woodycook]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

As for WTC, I don't dog on truthers, they are entitled to their opinion, but still no bit of evidence with how they got so much explosive power into the buildings in such a very-very secretive way.

We personally can not get all the answers. We are simply demanding a new investigation. The official story is full of holes, and 6 out of the 10 commissioners who wrote the official story have came out since then and said its lies. We pay our taxes, we deserve a new investigation.

Its ridiculous that the crime scene was cleaned within days before we even knew what happened, sending all that steel to china to be melted down.
No evidence, no case.

The only reason America believes it was Al Qaida is because they found a passport on the sidewalk belonging to a hijacker. (according to the 9-11 commission report) Computers weren't even found in the rubble but a passport was unscathed? Common!

 

[woodycook]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

This is not true. Declassified USSR documents show that the Soviets knew about the Manhattan project as early as 1941.
http://www.cfo.doe.gov/me70/manhattan/espionage.htm

Nixons aides could not break into a hotel room without everyone finding out. Bill Clinton could not get a blow job in the privacy of the oval office without everyone finding out. The secrecy that people give the government if overrated.

Foreign Intelligence concludes that 9-11 was an inside job...

Check this out:
http://current.com/news/88263971_ex-italian-prime-minister-9-11-carried-out-by-cia-and-mossad.htm

Ex-Italian Prime Minister says 9-11 was carried out by CIA and Mossad

 

[bacchus1234]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

this is the one I like. The Coup's Party Music album cover prepared in June 2001.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/thecoup.asp

I like conspiracies, yet I love freak coincidences.

 

[Daywolf]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

We personally can not get all the answers.

All the rest including who did it is not the issue. You can't move that much explosive power into such a place in a secretive manor, not unless you use high-speed androids or kill off all your workers and witnesses after the job...and kill their killers. Manpower and explosive tonnage just too overwhelming a factor. All the rest will only make you confused.

 

[woodycook]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

All the rest including who did it is not the issue. You can't move that much explosive power into such a place in a secretive manor, not unless you use high-speed androids or kill off all your workers and witnesses after the job...and kill their killers. Manpower and explosive tonnage just too overwhelming a factor. All the rest will only make you confused.

What if they mixed nano thermite particles into thousands of gallons of paint that they used to coat the buildings prior to 9-11, knowing that it would superheat and intensify the fires caused by the planes striking the buildings?

No bombs needed.

 

[woodycook]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

I can't even say how many times I heard this song this September 11th... People bumping it in their cars around my studio. (people I know)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_xXWSXyFI

 

[Daywolf]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

No bombs needed.

You already indirectly argued against that on post #41. "What if" arguments have a tendency of doing that.

 

[bacchus1234]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

What if they mixed nano thermite particles into thousands of gallons of paint that they used to coat the buildings prior to 9-11, knowing that it would superheat and intensify the fires caused by the planes striking the buildings?

No bombs needed.

Why do they even need to do that.

If you are really looking to the US government to have pulled it off, the answer is easy. Agree with the non-conspiracy theorist and say the planes could have and did bring down the buildings without extra explosives then argue about who was flying the planes.

Incidently, where are you getting your information on thermite at the site? Is it due to the presence of sulfer?

 

[woodycook]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

Why do they even need to do that.

If you are really looking to the US government to have pulled it off, the answer is easy. Agree with the non-conspiracy theorist and say the planes could have and did bring down the buildings without extra explosives then argue about who was flying the planes.

Incidently, where are you getting your information on thermite at the site? Is it due to the presence of sulfer?

No... As I mentioned earlier kerosene doesn't burn hot enough to weaken steel.

As for the thermite, it's just knowledge for me now, I'm not looking at a website. Just research online my brother.

 

[EvilChild]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

Jet fuel burns more than hot enough to weaken steel. Not melt steel, but yes it will weaken steel. As far as the molten steel found months later in the debris? I have no idea how that would even be possible regardless of how the buildings were taken down. It seems most likely that whoever is quoted saying that was either taken out of context, or didn't know what they were talking about to begin with.

WTC 7 was more than close enough to be brought down by the massive shower of debris when the main WTC buildings fell. In fact, pieces of the planes that hit the towers were found 30+ blocks away from the towers themselves. When I say pieces, I am referring to one of the planes engines (which is about the size of 2 refrigerators stacked together). I've seen the engine in person and could imagine it would do some hefty damage to whatever it hit. So a building right around the corner from the main towers like WTC 7 must have been absolutely pelted by tons of debris. No surprise that it fell imo.

I have to agree with bacchus. For conspiracy nuts, it shouldn't be an argument of how the WTCs fell, but rather of who was flying the planes that took them down.

 

[Daywolf]

Re: 9/11 Moment of silence

For conspiracy nuts, it shouldn't be an argument of how the WTCs fell, but rather of who was flying the planes that took them down.

...or to historical nuts. *cough* Pearl Harbor *cough* and Thomas Dewey backing down from nailing him before the elections etc. FDR had all the raw deals for us it seems. Other accounts of deception, so such an act is plausible in one fashion or another, but requires hard evidence nonetheless, and then someone in position to follow through. And yes, we made it to the moon