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30 July 2014 - Shard News Update
- Thread starter Ryan
- Start date
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While I like the basic concept of a housing tax similar to what's being introduced in Shroud of the Avatar, I will not burden players with such a program here. It would be a turn off to own a house and housing is a large part of Ultima Online.
Vaelah
Wanderer
I gotcha. Maybe tax houses from a certain size up. leave the basic small house untaxed for new players and once they become more advance and need more room, they can upgrade to something larger. At that point, they should be able to afford it and if not, be skilled enough to go farm gold.
charlie3771
Sorceror
oops deleted my post, but yeah interesting idea
DragonSlayer69r
Knight
I doubt the gold from the donation store had any large impact. That gold would barely cover the potion bottle, regs, and ore from faction vendors that players bought. Or so I could speculate. As I don't have access to those numbers.
But as gold used to be 25$ for 1million, that would be 30,000 transactions. That is assuming of course 100% of gold comes from donation stores. But even if just 50% of the worlds gold came from the donation store that's still 15 thousand transactions.
The hundreds of millions created by, and admitted by, corrupt staff members is to blame.
But as gold used to be 25$ for 1million, that would be 30,000 transactions. That is assuming of course 100% of gold comes from donation stores. But even if just 50% of the worlds gold came from the donation store that's still 15 thousand transactions.
The hundreds of millions created by, and admitted by, corrupt staff members is to blame.
GimpCent
Knight
Cheers for deleting 15 billion but largely that has nearly no real effect yet on new players at least in a good way. The money was gold dont get me wrong but largely it wasn't in play within the normal markets. Most of the cash was in the hands of people who used currupt staff or abused poker.
For abusing poker and being friends with GMs such as Piccard those folks for rewarded by the gold sink. Those who take advantage of poker's insecurity dont need to fear about spending money in these events they will make it right back. I could spend a year farming and wouldn't make what a poker player makes in a week.
Holy largely will holds massive amounts of money and that money is still economic play vs most of the poker players. The deleting of 15 bill so far doesn't really effect much other then making poor peoples money worth less for awhile.
Those with Kasas have seen them dramatically drop in value regardless of how much money you took out. Let's say Kasa were 30 mil before but you are selling them now for 5. Kasas are now not rare and the whole group of funny hat Kasa owners got fucked over because of it. No one won when you dropped that many Kasas on the shard at least not for awhile. You completely trashed one of a very few rare items we have left. Wtf is the point?
In the past you done similar things such as the rereleased of Trammie Barstools which were selling for gold and charcoal at 18 mil at the time. They dont even go for 5 mil and that was years ago. You think Kasas are going to pop back up in value?
Hell no they won't you screwed over a lot of long term players with little gain. You had black Kasas for sale not knowing we can just dye them. The gold sink so far hasn't been very well planned with now around 100 Kasas on the server and you putting more on it this morning for 5 million. There is plenty of unused graphics and items in Ultima Online you could of used but you crashed the market on an already stable item in a otherwise chaotic market. It has done more damage then good for most people and has lead to fear in the trading markets.
Just my opinion, welcome back either way
GimpCent
Knight
PvP needs help and factions need fixed. Dungeons and gold sinks are secondary to that. I dont doubt you get a lot of msgs about the economy but it isn't the most important thing facing the shard. It is no easier for newbies now then before. Their money didn't increase and the value of regs pots etc didn't and won't change. Housing market is still cheap so really honestly nothing changed for them.
So what did a gold sink for poker players and friends of past corrupt staff do besides reward them?
How did this make make it any easier for a new player?
Where are the changes we really need?
PvM doesn't keep people in mass playing. No one is flocking to UO for its amazing AI and PvM... We are here for PvP....
Why is a trade skill the primary damage dealer of the shard? Where are the faction changes you talked about in the past? Can we get a update on that?
So what did a gold sink for poker players and friends of past corrupt staff do besides reward them?
How did this make make it any easier for a new player?
Where are the changes we really need?
PvM doesn't keep people in mass playing. No one is flocking to UO for its amazing AI and PvM... We are here for PvP....
Why is a trade skill the primary damage dealer of the shard? Where are the faction changes you talked about in the past? Can we get a update on that?
Boomshakalaka
Squire
I've always thought you needed a high liquid market to match the items on the shards worth. Are prices of high end rares dropping since the gold sink? I'm not an economist but it just seems that by reducing the liquid money and still having a lot of money tied up in items, it doesn't really help the problem. Things are still going to be an exorbitant amount of money and with every gold sink (santa, etc) it just makes it harder for the non wealthy to break through to the top.
I've always seen gold sinks as an unofficial tax. People want to take part in it, but after it's said and done a majority of people have little to no liquid cash to spend/buy items. It is essentially the icing on the cake being removed from their hard work.
Could be missing out on something, but I see these rares as just another top end item that the players who have the money to pay for them now can turn them into a flipping in the next couple of months and make more profits. Or, if Ryan intends to include some of these top end rares in monster drops, then those that bought these for a lot of money will soon see their valuable item not so valuable.
Not sure of the benefits of this gold sink, but I'm sure I'm missing something in the grand scheme of things. And I'm aware that this is an 11 year old server and there's most likely no way to get a good economy from every perspective angle, but I at least see that there are attempts being made and I'm hoping for the best. Maybe somebody can tell me that gold sinks are positive and I'll go back under my bridge in the general discussion/PVP section.
I've always seen gold sinks as an unofficial tax. People want to take part in it, but after it's said and done a majority of people have little to no liquid cash to spend/buy items. It is essentially the icing on the cake being removed from their hard work.
Could be missing out on something, but I see these rares as just another top end item that the players who have the money to pay for them now can turn them into a flipping in the next couple of months and make more profits. Or, if Ryan intends to include some of these top end rares in monster drops, then those that bought these for a lot of money will soon see their valuable item not so valuable.
Not sure of the benefits of this gold sink, but I'm sure I'm missing something in the grand scheme of things. And I'm aware that this is an 11 year old server and there's most likely no way to get a good economy from every perspective angle, but I at least see that there are attempts being made and I'm hoping for the best. Maybe somebody can tell me that gold sinks are positive and I'll go back under my bridge in the general discussion/PVP section.
Actually this not correct... one of the major problems is that the high liquidity on the shard contributes to inflation over the long term... there have been many unfortunate events where players illicitly obtained gold, be it through a poor staff interaction or a bug in the game. What people view as assets (pixels) in the game have some value, but that value is driven by the market and liquidity. If you recall the recent issues with the US economy, we said it was due to a lack of 'credit' aka liquidity and that people needed access to money to get the economy moving. Banks were given money to lend and while most didn't, some did and it still didn't jump start the economy the way the government had hoped.
The truth is that having a tighter liquid supply of gold is good for the shard... when the liquid supply is down it forces people to earn gold. It also makes the current 'status' level of a player in the economy more attainable for the newer players or the 'poorer' players for lack of a better term. This is much better than a redistribution of wealth and it is not any form of a tax. When being in the top ranking players is more attainable the every day players will actually seek to make more money, more farming creates increased levels of liquidity, brings action back to dungeons etc... thus causing more field related PvP action... in theory.
I obviously believe in this and it is something we've done before, unofficially and the outcome every time has been a good one... this time to benefit the player base we're being transparent so that they can see the sweeping changes.
Some might argue that it's the wrong place to start, but the reality is that the economy is one of the most important aspects of this server. While it's next to impossible to completely control or regulate it, at least keeping it inside the appropriate box is a good thing... not to mention ridding the world of illicit gold.
Boomshakalaka
Squire
Obviously more gold sinks are on their way, but if I recalled in another thread you mentioned you wanted to take gold out of the donation store. I imagine it is the top seller and most likely what is keeping the server alive, but if your intention really is to remove the gold from the store, wouldn't doing something like this after the removal of the gold in the store have more effect?
Either way, I agree with what you said this having an effect on the economy. Hopefully, it has a sustainable positive effect and not a terrible bounce 1-2 months down the road.
Either way, I agree with what you said this having an effect on the economy. Hopefully, it has a sustainable positive effect and not a terrible bounce 1-2 months down the road.
See above.
Poker is another thing that will be brought to the forefront eventually... while the high stakes tables are fun, they are allowing way to much wealth to transfer hands, way to easily.
This is patently false. I have the empirical data to prove who holds the gold, I graph how it changes hourly and can go as granular now as to who moved a check and when. The idea that this makes poor people poorer is just conjecture and has no basis in reality.
Gold is worth more, yes some people got "hurt" by an asset value that is not guaranteed at all. The idea that you would hold your wealth in an item is a risky one... and yes it didn't work out for some people... they made an investment that sucked long term but for the short term it's better for the server. And for the record the five million gold kasa is just a junk, non blessed kasa. The other kasa's are hued awesome colors and blessed thus making them very valuable. I watched someone sell the mint kasa tonight for 35M. In addition there will be new 'rare' items coming out. The idea that we're limited to one item, a kasa being a true rare is just silly.
There are literally 10 times the number of Trammie Barstools than there are Kasa's. Yes their value should hold and with the supply of gold being liquid, 20M yesterday is roughly 10M today... when you wrap your head around that you're going to realize why this works out in the long run. As for the black ones, you're again making silly statements, I know they can be dyed black... I don't care. If someone sinks gold on them that's what matters.
Thanks.
Actually the gold on the store is not the top seller... it used to be but it no longer is. I'm intent on seeing if we can cover the bills without gold. If we can't then we'll look at a limited monthly injection or whatever it takes. Perhaps different items etc... I'm confident we will find an appropriate solution.
You're wrong on this... see above.
This makes no sense...
It makes their gold worth more, go farther. It also intrinsically will cause people to farm more which will help newbies find partners to farm with etc...
I beg to differ and I'd venture to guess you know you're wrong on this and you're trolling. There are a lot of players on this shard who dont participate in dueling, pvp and/or factions. They play pure PvM, they play pure crafters, pure sales people etc...
You have to have all kinds to have an effective shard... the idea that this is only about PvP shows that you're opinions come from the wrong place. You need to take a look at the holistic picture, not the microcosm of PvP.
I'm betting a lot on this move, I believe the long term impact to the shard will be good. The key is that it can't be the only thing we do. There are a whole slew of other things that have to be done over time in conjunction. We have to re-do the rare markets, create amazing new rare spawns so that people have even higher end items in the economy and something to work for.
If you keep the staff of old I suggest since everything is getting overhauled that any old staff that have been pegged as corrupt or "holy" get name changes so people don't know their in game characters.... *cough* Slow King...
Now they always said "but our logs are monitored by Francis etc."
There is not enough trust with the former actions of Picard etc. Especially when they are not paid positions.
So all I am saying is potentially changing GMs names so that players don't know their in game characters and cry/moan corruption or say oh your in Holy no wonder you know the time of the IDOC you got two GMs and a counselor in your guild.
Now they always said "but our logs are monitored by Francis etc."
There is not enough trust with the former actions of Picard etc. Especially when they are not paid positions.
So all I am saying is potentially changing GMs names so that players don't know their in game characters and cry/moan corruption or say oh your in Holy no wonder you know the time of the IDOC you got two GMs and a counselor in your guild.
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