[VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrect

[Feersum Endjinn]

[VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrect

Type: Bug/Code Discrepancy.

Basic Description: See title.

Way to experience: Pvp a lot on both OSI and Demise or carry out some of the tests Bile suggests below.

Detailed Description: Initial testing suggests Cast recovery on Demise can be both faster (at FCR6) or slower (at FCR3) than on OSI. Tests also suggest that Interrupt Recovery Times (after your spell has been interrupted by a real or NPC opponent or because you interrupted yourself in some way) are non-existent on Demise. Various tests proving this are shown by Bile below.

Links: None at this time.

Code: None

We are going to need a lot of testing to fix this. Bile has suggested a couple of intelligent testing methods which may allow us to get more precise information, but if anyone else comes up with other new testing methods - post them here!

So far the tests all refer to Magery spells. Any verifiable information concerning discrepancies between OSI and RunUO cast/recovery times for Chiv, Necro, Ninja, Bushido.SW etc are welcome.

Probably completely useless and waste of my time, yall might get different results based on the difference of your ping to Demise and OSI Shards...

The problem resides in how Faster Cast Recovery is coded.

There is no way to pinpoint how to fix this (That I've Found) besides just observing how Spell Recovery works in its entirety and changing it to how it seems it works.

Now for those that cannot spot this with the naked eye there are a few ways to test and show that there is indeed a problem here.

Comparisons:
UOG: Demise / RunUO Releases - When the Faster Cast Recovery limit is reached, it removes the message "You have not finished recovering from casting a spell", it acts as if Casting Recovery itself is eliminated from Spell to Spell.

OSI - When the Faster Cast Recovery limit is reached, it removes the message "You have not finished recovering from casting a spell", it acts as if there is a delay from Spell to Spell.


Tests that show something is wrong with how RunUO compares to OSI.

Items Needed: 2 Faster Casting and 6 Faster Cast Recovery : 1 Faster Casting and 6 Faster Cast Recovery

Warning: These tests revolve around -
In the UO Display Option
Speech Remain on Screen - 100
Scale Speech Duration based on Length - Checked

Test One: Shows the difference of how many spells you can cast before they disappear without targeting with them and while targeting with them. Aswell as the outrageousness of how off Demise's compared to OSI.

Step 1 -
Equip the 2:6 set on both OSI and UOG Demise

Step 2 - Create a Macro through the In-Game Macro System on both OSI and Demise for the First Circle Spell - Heal.

The lines should read:
Cast Spell > Heal

Step 3 - (For those who don't know Spell Casting Lengths)
Create a Razor Macro for both the OSI Open Client and the Demise Open Client for the spell - Heal.

The lines should read:
CastSpell Heal
Wait for Target (Highlight this line, right click it and edit Wait Time to 1)
Target Self
Loop - Checked

Step 4 -
Hold Down the In-Game Macro for the Spell - Heal on both OSI and Demise (You are not targeting with them)
- Notice how many Heals come above your head before they start to disappear
-- Demise: 12 Showing
-- OSI: 8 Showing

Step 5 -
Run the Razor Macro
- Notice how many Heals come above your head before they start to disappear
-- Demise: 10 Showing
-- OSI: 5 Showing

Step 6-
Test this with everything, Lightning, Harm, Fireball, Cure, Greater Heal, Energy Bolt, and it all comes out to be significantly less when comparing RunUO to OSI.


Now for a test that involves two people.

Test Two: Shows that its impossible to Teleport faster than someone can run [mounted] while both going in a straight line.

Step 1 -
Create Razor Macro w/ Loop to Teleport > Wait for Target > Relative Location (11,0)

Should Read:
CastSpell Teleport
Wait for Target (Highlight this line, right click it and edit Wait Time to 1)
Target RelLoc (11,0)

Step 2 -
Find a nice straight line side by side, Skara Brae Farm Area or any clear road will do.

Step 3 -
Hit play on the Teleport Macro and have your buddy run [mounted] along side of you.

Demise: Teleporter gains a few tiles over the Runner every Teleport casted.
OSI: Teleporter loses a few tiles against the Runner every Teleport casted.


Test Three - Now onward to the 1:3 Casting Ratio. This will show.. well... That something happens on Demise when it reaches the 6 Faster Cast Recovery Limit, stated above, I think it just Eliminates the damn Recovery all together.

Step 1 -
Hold Down the In-Game Macro for the Spell - Heal on both OSI and Demise (You are not targeting with them)
- Notice how many Heals come above your head before they start to disappear
-- Demise: 2 Spells Showing
-- OSI: 3 Spells Showing



.... from my observation and well... playing so long.. The only possibility I see is that Demise is off from the get-go, but once its FCR is maxed it just does away with actual FCR...







Oh, something I noticed while testing...

Regarding Faster Casting and Animation:

[The Demise animation times are wrong]

OSI - Faster Casting effects the animation only of Circles 4 - 5: Reducing the spells to 1 Full Pump, disregarding the summon spells: Summ. Creature and Blade Spirit.

Tested with 0 Faster Casting
Circle 4 - Two Full Pumps
Circle 5 - Two Full Pumps
Circle 6 - Two Full Pumps

Tested with 2 Faster Casting
Circle 4 - One Full Pump
Circle 5 - One Full Pump
Circle 6 - Two Full Pumps


UOG: Demise - Faster Casting effects the animations only of Circles 5-6: Reducing the spells to 1 Full Pump, disregarding the summon spells: Summ. Creature and Blade Spirit.

Tested with 0 Faster Casting
Circle 4 - One Full Pump
Circle 5 - Two Full Pumps
Circle 6 - Two Full Pumps

Tested with 2 Faster Casting
Circle 4 - One Full Pump
Circle 5 - One Full Pump
Circle 6 - One Full Pump

Ok.

It looks like you've hit on some good testing methods.

So... As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong):

Your tests/experience demonstrate that chaining spells, or casting combos is completely different on RunUO shards because FCR delay is out of whack - being a 50% longer delay than OSI at FC1 FCR3 and a significantly shorter (50-100%) or non-existent delay at FC2 FCR6.

At 1/3 Casting you cast Heal spam slower than on OSI.

At 2/6 Casting you Heal spam faster than on OSI. (This is what allows you to teleport faster than running speed)

I guess using the same system to test with all FC/FCR combinations might shed more light on this.

A couple of questions:

• Did you mean "running" speed or "mounted running" speed?
• When you talk about the animations, are you saying that you can actually cast a single 4th Level or 6th Level spell (but not a 5th Level one) faster on Demise, or that the animations themselves are wrong? Ie - is there a problem with cast times and FC themselves, or is it limited to FCR?
• Have you ever played on any freeshard that had got it exactly right?
  

Thanks

FE

PS Wither got a recent fix - so I hope it is now like OSI.

getting interrupted doesnt put u in a recovery delay like osi does. Taking away from timing and in extension player skill almost completely and making spamming the way to go on runuo servers.

FRC can and should be 0 on some spells, at some point. I don't think the code is nessisarily wrong, it was one of the first things fixed if i remeber correctly, i also remeber having issues with how it was being coded, but i think i changed my tune after looking at it closer.

according to stratics FCR lowers cast recovery time by .25 seconds, which is the exact same speed OSI matched animal form recorvery time to on a fix during publish 39. animal form on osi now correctly has a delay of 1 second with 6 FCR, as opposed to 2.5 the actual delay of the spell.

Heal on OSI and Demise should have a recovery time of 0 with fcr 6. the problem shouldn't be in FCR, it's a simple concept with easy numbers. Cept for the interupt value which is probably wrong.

Prohunter, I'm not sure I follow this.

It sounds as if you aren't talking about normal FCR here (since FCR6 can give you a zero (or is it 0.25?) seconds recovery time.

Is this a "special" delay? Or is it just the full cast time of whichever spell got interrupted? So whether interrupted or not, you can never recast before a) the spell cast time is up and b) the casting recovery time is up.

So with FC0/FCR3 if your Heal is interrupted you can cast again after 0.5 seconds (spell delay at FC0) + 0.75 seconds (cast recovery delay at FCR3), but if your Earthquake is interrupted you can't cast again until 2.25 seconds + 0.75 seconds has gone by? (And with FC2/FCR5: 1.75+0.25 seconds for L8 spells?)


Thanks for the help


FE

PS Without getting into Chiv or Ninja etc spells - I always understood that Cast Recovery time for Mage spells was a fixed 1.5s - 0.25s per FCR point. After testing on a char with 0FCR though, I see this can not be true (on Demise anyway) as I can chain spells with less than a 1.5s delay (even with high ping)... How is FCR supposed to work?

Yes, Prohunter is also correct about what he is saying, there is a short delay from being interrupted and following the interruption with a spell.

id have to say its a special recovery that is only effected when u get interrupted including over casting since u are interrupting urself. This interrupt timer doesnt really appear to stack with the normal recovery from what i can tell. Meaning if u have 4fcr and u get interrupted the recovery time is still .5. So i would say it was a built in feature to stop 6 recovery casters from casting like runuo servers.

Ok. Thanks.

But how long a delay are we talking for something like Earthquake or Flamestrike when it is interrupted? Still 0.5s, or the full casting duration?

All this info is great to get a bug report started and know what we are actually trying to fix (and maybe suggest a few possible new testing methods).




FE

PS Though I have a feeling in the end it is going to take some pretty serious in-depth testing of every spell level with every FC and FCR combination...

the delay is the same for all spells the only difference is in fcr. the longer one is the one applied making 4-6fcr the same when disrupted.

It takes a perfect timed harm in order interrupt a interrupt + gheal combo and u cant disrupt a interrupt archcure(considered level 3 on osi) combo with harm. This is why i would say its a .5 and not a .25

6fcr = .5
5fcr = .5
4fcr = .5
3fcr = .75
2fcr = 1
1fcr = 1.25
0fcr = 1.5

 

[emoooo]

Re: Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrect

that's pretty easy to fix if we know 100% that our numbers are correct.

fc/fcr is working as intended, except that osi have a minimum recovery between spells that is somewhere in the 0.1-0.25 range. What exactly is it remains to be found out. When set to 0.25s you get 6 visible casts, so it's probably in the 0.20s

I tested out bile's test 3 on a vanilla runuo with 1/3 and I had 3 visible casts, so it is working like OSI.

 

[emoooo]

Re: Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrect

there it is.
this will
-add a 0.2 minimum recovery between spells
-add a 0.5-1.5s recovery after disturb (depending on fcr)

I wish i could do more testing on it myself, but i probably wont have any time soon. So far tested:
-tested Test One, Step four and I got 8 casts of heal.
-tested Test Three and I got 3 heals.
-when disturbed while spamming heal, the extra delay is noticeable.
-only problem is when hitting the minimum cast recovery (spamming heal) you still get a sysmessage "You need to recover...", but thats a minor.

 

[Xavier]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

I am sure, that once upon a time - OSI posted (either in a publish note or on FoF) the formula for this.

It would be a MUCH better plan to find the actual documentation, than trying to "test" something that makes such a difference at only 10s of milliseconds...

 

[emoooo]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

yup i probably wont be around by then but as i said, easy fix as long as you know how much that delay is.

just did a google search on "recovery cast OR disturb OR interrupt site:uoherald.com", nothing relevant showed up, so yeah good luck.

 

[kolbycrouch]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

I was certain that fcr6 made your recovery time 0

 

[Xavier]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

I was certain that fcr6 made your recovery time 0

OSI seems that way to me. I tried to outcast my recover time at FCR6, and I couldnt get that message once.

But again, I am sure they published this info... we probably dont need guesswork here.

 

[emoooo]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

UOG: Demise / RunUO Releases - When the Faster Cast Recovery limit is reached, it removes the message "You have not finished recovering from casting a spell", it acts as if Casting Recovery itself is eliminated from Spell to Spell.

OSI - When the Faster Cast Recovery limit is reached, it removes the message "You have not finished recovering from casting a spell", it acts as if there is a delay from Spell to Spell.

According to that and my experience in the past, there is a delay between spells that is not technically recovery delay, but it's still there. You don't get the "you need to recover" sysmessage on OSI, but the delay is evident.

 

[Bile]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

You don't get the "you need to recover" sysmessage on OSI, but the delay is evident.

You are absolutely right

 

[Xavier]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

could it possibly be part of a general action throttle we dont have?

 

[kolbycrouch]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

maybe faster casting is a little off, or that casting spell number 2 after spell number 1 is actually faster, not in the sense that recovery is off, but casting another spell is faster for some reason. All in all it doesnt seem too far off.

 

[emoooo]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

yup, just logged on OSI on my old account and looks like casting itself is off, not just the delay.
this is with default text display settings (same as what bile posted)
the 1/3 casting shots show the difference in casting without the delay between spells.
the 2/6 shots show how extremely off we are.

 

[emoooo]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

actually im assuming that it's a minimum recovery delay and it's not applied after spells with recovery delay greater than 0.25s. If it is applied then our casting might be fine and we just need to apply the delay between all casts, including those with 1.5s recovery etc.

this equation suggests that they are in fact applying the delay after the recovery delay.

number of casts*(CastDelay + RecoveryDelay + OtherDelay + Latency) = 4

4 is the duration in seconds before text disappears.

So on Demise spamming heal with 1/3 casting:
3.1*(0.5 + 0.75 + 0 + 0.05 ) = 4.03
On OSI: assuming they are applying the delay (assuming the delay is 0.20s)
2.7*(0.5 + 0.75 + 0.2 + 0.05) = 4.05
without delay:
2.7*(0.5 + 0.75 + 0 + 0.05) = 3.484 which is way off, meaning that the sum of the delays is wrong. Assuming that it takes 0.5s to cast heal with 1fc on OSI and 0.75s to recover, then either my latency should be over 280 or there is another delay. I ping 50ms to OSI TC so they probably have the delay after recovery delay.

 

[Xavier]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

could it possibly be part of a general action throttle we dont have?

I seriously think this may be the case. Try moving items around, and opening chests and such... you cant do anything as fast on OSI as you can on demise.

 

[emoooo]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

yup that's definitely there, but i think there's 2 different systems controlling time between spells and actions, because you dont get the "you must wait to perform another action" sysmessage between spells, and the timer for spells is much shorter.

 

[Fandul]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

...

 

[cesar.brisighelli]

is there any progress here? this is a very important issue for having a balanced PvP.

 

[Eskeshehir]

Doesn't this fall into PSZ's "Demise was meant to be faster for a reason, and it's staying like this"

 

[Lucifall]

Re: [VALIDATION NEEDED] Casting Recovery and/or Interrupt Recovery times are incorrec

could it possibly be part of a general action throttle we dont have?

I went in the TC and tested it, that seemed to be the case.

 

[Xavier]

Doesn't this fall into PSZ's "Demise was meant to be faster for a reason, and it's staying like this"

unfortunately psz's itinerary was destroyed in a mishap involving a half gallon of cheap whiskey, two gerbils and roleplaying an SS officer from WW2 ... so we no longer have that information. But, this happens to be on my "not on the table" list till some other stuff gets done. This thing WILL be a major distraction when it is addressed, and we dont have time to do that debating right now.

I went in the TC and tested it, that seemed to be the case.

From what I could figure, it seemed to primarily be this factor, but it seemed that at FCR 6, you still have a small fraction of the recovery time, ie it doesnt quite hit 0 until a hypothetical FCR 7 or 8... but again, like i pointed our earlier in this thread, events measured in milliseconds are going to be awefully difficult to figure out based on observations.

When we have the current work out of the way. I will be all for addressing this, NOT NOW. We have enough on our plates without this sure-to-be-a-hassle issue, and when we do, I feel very strongly that all templates' timing / delay fixes need sorted at the same time. If you think pvp is out of wack now, fix it for just one template and see what happens