DragonSlayer69r's bad suggestion list. Want feedback.

[DragonSlayer69r]

1 stun mage in a group of 3 hally mages would pretty much be insta kills without time for heals.

It's no different than 1 stun and 3 hally mages running with fs preloaded off scrolls.
187 tried that for years. It doesn't work.

The only two instances I can think of that would be affected by instant swing would be:

1. Cross dump's with bows
2. Dueling pit.

 

[Heavy Smoker]

Eh, if youve ever played uog divinity you would see the outcome and thats offmount, i could only imagine with mounts. Im down for testing it out though.. Personally I like insta hit especially for 1v1 tank duels, ive always wanted that to be an option on the dueling menu instant hit

 

[toddy2]

I'd put money on 4 scribes mages over 3 tanks and a stun any day. But I haven't got much experience with instant hit servers.

 

[Little Owl]

Half Instant Swing is something that might be reasonable. I figure from the starting point of your weapon being secured/sheathed it takes half the time to get ready to strike, you strike, and then you recover and prepare to strike again.

So if the Normal Swing Delay is 3.0 seconds, it may be reasonable enough to have a time of 1.5 second before you inflict initial damage (given that it has been the full swing delay since your last swing attempt). The followup swing would of course be 3.0 seconds later. It would have to be tested versus the current swing delays to ensure that it is possible to heal properly. All the swing delays may have to be slightly increased to keep things balanced.

It would then follow though, that you should not be able to cast a spell following a swing until 1/2 of your swing delay has elapsed (because you are in your weapon swing follow-through), which is not something people are likely to like. Essentially full-instant swing cheats the swing recovery period and dexterity component of melee.

As for full instant-swing, I believe that would make the tank mage template overly powerful. Even two archer tank mages running around with precasted meteor swarm would insta-kill people every 1 in 4 attempts, simply by running on-screen - hitting last target and then equipping their heavy crossbow.

 

[Vizeroth]

2. Disable the use of Gate Travel spells while under the combat flag:
Probably a good idea, if for no other reason than to prevent people and their friends from gating themselves out of combat. I don't feel it should apply to ghosts, however.

3. Remove safe zones that are close to the general population:
Combat-free zones have one issue, so the solution is to remove them entirely? No. It would be sufficient to prevent players from initiating combat for a few seconds seconds after leaving a combat-free zone.

4. Tweak the percent chances of weapon special hits:
Regardless of how necessary special moves are to securing a win, I'm guessing it would be pretty annoying to increase the frequency of being stunned. I'm sure there are better ways to find balance.

Removing runic weapons:
This seems fine as long as we're talking about preventing new runic weapons from being created and not destroying the ones that already exist. If not, this is no better a suggestion than a gold wipe, drastically hurting specific players and making everyone refarm what they've already earned.

 

[DragonSlayer69r]

Half Instant Swing is something that might be reasonable. I figure from the starting point of your weapon being secured/sheathed it takes half the time to get ready to strike, you strike, and then you recover and prepare to strike again.

So if the Normal Swing Delay is 3.0 seconds, it may be reasonable enough to have a time of 1.5 second before you inflict initial damage (given that it has been the full swing delay since your last swing attempt). The followup swing would of course be 3.0 seconds later. It would have to be tested versus the current swing delays to ensure that it is possible to heal properly. All the swing delays may have to be slightly increased to keep things balanced.

It would then follow though, that you should not be able to cast a spell following a swing until 1/2 of your swing delay has elapsed (because you are in your weapon swing follow-through), which is not something people are likely to like. Essentially full-instant swing cheats the swing recovery period and dexterity component of melee.

As for full instant-swing, I believe that would make the tank mage template overly powerful. Even two archer tank mages running around with precasted meteor swarm would insta-kill people every 1 in 4 attempts, simply by running on-screen - hitting last target and then equipping their heavy crossbow.

Instant swing didn't cheat any swing speed of a weapon...

I'm not being an ass, but do you know how instant swing works?

If you have a weapon that only swings every 5 seconds, you only swing every 5 seconds.

Without instant swing, if you equip the weapon, you have to wait the full 5 seconds before attacking.

With instant swing, as long as 5 seconds have passed and you have not punched or swung you will attack immediately.

That's it.
The half instant swing you were talking about cheats dexterity. Instant swing does not.

 

[DragonSlayer69r]

And any hostile action will make you punch so... Yeah.

If you're not good at combat stance dancing in the middle of a fight, instant swing isn't going to help you at all.

 

[Little Owl]

I believe it is you that does not understand the repercussions of what you suggest.

Currently, the penalty of equipping a two handed weapon is that you cannot drink potions or use spells while a two-handed weapon is equipped. You have to deal with the damage or with being poisoned while you wait to strike (for the period of the swing delay starting at the time of initial equip). For a swing speed of 4 seconds, such as a hally at 45 dex, you have to deal with not being able to cast or drink potions while you wait to strike. You can cast and drink potions immediately after you swing. You pay the 4 second penalty up front, and for as long as you want to keep the weapon in your hand.

With insta-swing, there is no such penalty. You can cast spells, equip your weapon and take a swing, and immediately go back to casting spells and drinking potions while you wait out your swing delay. This is completely different and would require rebalancing of swing speeds, melee, and spell damages.

Set that all aside though for a moment and consider the archer mage example provided. That alone should tell you that instant swing game mechanics cannot just be added without complete rebalancing.

 

[Vizeroth]

As for full instant-swing, I believe that would make the tank mage template overly powerful. Even two archer tank mages running around with precasted meteor swarm would insta-kill people every 1 in 4 attempts, simply by running on-screen - hitting last target and then equipping their heavy crossbow.

Balance discussion aside, you know this can already be done if you simply run in with your crossbows already equipped and fire before releasing the meteor swarms, yes?

 

[Little Owl]

It is similar. For that, they would be attacking with the xbow first (or they lose the spell). So you have the delay between them shooting, hitting lasttarget, and the half-second damage delay of meteor swarm. With instant hit, the ms damage would come nearly concurrent with the heavy xbow hit. Additionally, when you see the opponents coming in, you currently get the knowledge of the potential danger since they already have their weapons equipped, and they have to stand still for 1 second before they can fire their shot. It is pretty similar, I'll give you that.

Insta-hit is not necessarily good or bad, it's just different and would likely need many other changes to the server to make it work. When you see an opponent equip an item, the current setup gives you the opportunity to prepare for the potential damage. You get the opportunity to counter to defend yourself. Insta-hit doesn't allow for that. Someone can just inject instant melee damage that cannot be prepped for.

As long as people understand what they are getting...it's fine - but I would anticipate many additional changes to compensate for the change.

 

[DragonSlayer69r]

I believe it is you that does not understand the repercussions of what you suggest.

Currently, the penalty of equipping a two handed weapon is that you cannot drink potions or use spells while a two-handed weapon is equipped. You have to deal with the damage or with being poisoned while you wait to strike (for the period of the swing delay starting at the time of initial equip). For a swing speed of 4 seconds, such as a hally at 45 dex, you have to deal with not being able to cast or drink potions while you wait to strike. You can cast and drink potions immediately after you swing. You pay the 4 second penalty up front, and for as long as you want to keep the weapon in your hand.

With insta-swing, there is no such penalty. You can cast spells, equip your weapon and take a swing, and immediately go back to casting spells and drinking potions while you wait out your swing delay. This is completely different and would require rebalancing of swing speeds, melee, and spell damages.

Set that all aside though for a moment and consider the archer mage example provided. That alone should tell you that instant swing game mechanics cannot just be added without complete rebalancing.

Alright, now pretend the hally is throwable, always hits, is unaffected by armor, and does para blow. And is already instant swing.


But you try to justify a delay to swing... With inability to cast spells or drink potions for a chance at a melee range only hit that can be destroyed by proper armor.

 

[Little Owl]

Not really sure what you are getting at. You post a thread with a title that says you want feedback. Then you reply to posts with a condescending tone?

Insta-swing is different - plain and simple. It cheats swing delay in that you get to cast spells and drink potions concurrent with you recovering from the prior swing. In effect, you are only penalized for holding a two-handed weapon for the brief moment that you equip it to your hands - which can be as little as half a second.

Is it really reasonable for someone to be able to take a halberd out of their backpack, instantly hack someone in half with it, and then disappear it to their pack again - repeat every 4 to 5 seconds? There is no opportunity to counter or defend. It's nonsense. Similar to having spells damage at the beginning of the spell cast instead of the end. The most realistic option is somewhere in between the two ideas, which is why I suggested so. You pay the penalty half up front, half after.

 

[DragonSlayer69r]

Not being rude, just offering my point of view.

In my personal viewpoint, instant swing would be a neat mechanic alongside alchy stuns. And would, if only momentarily, bring back some people.

 

[Heavy Smoker]

I'd put money on 4 scribes mages over 3 tanks and a stun any day. But I haven't got much experience with instant hit servers.

Basically you can play like a normal mage, sync someone and at the end instantly arm your weapon and sync a hit on someone with a hally or bow dealing an extra 50+ dmg per person

 

[Heavy Smoker]

Balance discussion aside, you know this can already be done if you simply run in with your crossbows already equipped and fire before releasing the meteor swarms, yes?

Its in no way shape or form the same or even similar, these hits are ready at ANY time to deal out huge damage. Id be down to try it for a few weeks