TheForgottenOne
Sorceror
^ as slaughter said. Lightning strike gives you 45 hci and with honor you get di and luck boost. Just get a bow with sis and mana leech and get luck gear.
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Doom and Things (Re: 17 days in Doom)
- Thread starter Eos
- Start date
Bama
Bug Huntress
WOOT!!!!!!!!!!
Justin McElhaney
Traveler
I will try to make this post as complete as possible, to answer all the questions posed in this thread.
Let me begin by clarifying that our point system was designed to introduce the mechanism of guaranteed drops, not to increase drop rates to OSI levels. The huge increase in drop rate that happened on OSI is a thing on its own, and it was highly contested at the time. I honestly believe their developers did not intend for such a drastic increase, but that's not relevant for Demise.
As also mentioned before in other threads, the average rate in Doom is still very much like the old drop rate. Drops have simply gotten a higher chance of occurring at regular intervals. Our point system can be seen as a mere normalization of these drop intervals.
We've been monitoring Doom artifact drops for a little over a month now. From May 18 to June 18, we had a total of 170 Doom artifacts spawn. That's an average of 5.48 per day, or about 38 a week. That means there's an ornament of the magician being spawned every week. (And indeed, in that period, 5 ornaments of the magician spawned.)
When comparing this to OSI, yes, this drop rate is indeed too low. However, if everyone was able to obtain all their desired Doom artifacts within a day, there would soon be no point in keeping Doom around at all. The server would be flooded with them. This also goes for Treasures of Tokuno, which is not enabled permanently for the same reason.
OSI must've realized this somewhere along the way, which is why you can see later expansions adding back rarer and better artifacts, with drop rates similar to the old Doom rates. (The Stygian Dragon and Medusa artifacts, for example.) Every game needs its "diamond ore".
This is why I believe that OSI drop rates are a bad idea. You may want that ornament of the magician now, but when you're getting one daily and struggle to even sell them, the whole system becomes irrelevant.
Now, I don't make decisions based solely on my own views. I'm willing to experiment with the Doom point gains to find a healthy value for the shard, which is why we'll begin awarding double points after this coming server wars. The point rewards may increase, or decrease, based on the observed drops after that.
For those wondering about the internal workings of the Doom point system, I will explain how the system that is currently active operates. (Beware, technical mumbo jumbo ahead.)
The system is based on the pseudo-random distribution, which is used and documented for other games as well (one such link). It works by increasing your chance with every roll, so that eventually the chance becomes so high that a successful roll is inevitable.
The accumulated chance starts at 0, and your chance increments are much lower than the projected average success chance, which makes it unlikely to get a successful roll early on. Similarly, after some time, the accumulated chance becomes sufficiently high that not getting a successful roll becomes unlikely. The result is that successful rolls are more likely to happen at regular intervals, rather than all over the place. (Which isn't actually truly random anymore, but "random enough" for added player comfort.)
Getting down to the specific system in place on Demise, every player character has a "total points" value which starts at 0. When killing a gauntlet monster, the total points from that monster are divided over all players with loot rights as follows:
Code:points = totalPoints * ( 1 / totalPlayers ) * ( damage / totalDamage ) * ( 1 + luckMod )^2
The total points from the monster are scaled by the number of players with loot rights, as well as the portion of damage that a player dealt. This may seem odd, as it appears to be scaling twice for the number of people present (1/3 of players and 1/3 of damage for example). The fact that the point system adds these points to everyone's individual system makes up for this, and through simulation one can see that this maintains the division of chance present in the old system.
The luck modifier is a bit more complicated, and it is based on the GetLuckChance() calculation used for increased loot and such:
Code:luckMod = luckChance / 8500 luckChance = luck^( 1 / 1.8 ) * 100
Wearing 2500 luck, for example, results in a luckChance of about 7,722 (which for loot would mean a 77.22% chance of a bonus property/item), which results in a luckMod of about 0.9, which results in a 3.6x modifier for your point gain.
After the points are updated on all players, a roll is made for each player where the total accumulated points represents a chance out of 100. When one player's roll is successful, the system stops rolling. This happens so that only one artifact can drop per monster (but everyone gets points). On a successful roll, the player is awarded a random artifact and their points are reset to 0.
Because the roll is out of 100, this means that once you've collected 100 points, a roll is guaranteed to succeed. (Unless someone rolls successfully for the artifact before you do, but then their points will reset and you will likely win the next roll.) In practice, however, people never reach 100 points. Most people receive an artifact at 0.3-0.7 accumulated points.
In the observed Doom drops from May 18 to June 18, 118 drops (70%) occurred before reaching 0.7 accumulated points, 148 drops (87%) occurred before reaching 1.0 points, and the highest point accumulation one person got was 2.27.
The total number of points a monster gives is different for Dark Fathers than the rest of the mobs:
Code:DF totalPoints = 9.0 / 256 other totalPoints = 9.0 / 1024
Beautiful absolutely beautiful lol, and yes i did read every word and understood just fine, now debating wether to use more dmg and less luck lol cause honestly it feels liek 1100 luck on tamer archer isnt doing jack lol. appreciate the entire lay out.sorry didnt get to read soon but busy with work and 5 kids and all lol.
DFs do indeed give 4x as many points as other mobs do. On average, though, this still leads to only a double drop chance because of the nature of the distribution.
These values may seem quite arbitrary. They were decided upon through simulation of the system for different values. Using these matches the system very closely to the old drop chances (only slightly higher), for various luck values and player counts.
The above specifications should allow anyone to simulate the system completely.
I don't expect many people to read this post in its entirely, but if you, Justin McElhaney, are one of those people, then I salute you. Any further questions will have to wait until my keyboard replenishes its ink.
Justin McElhaney
Traveler
i agree wish i had some way to actually see the "point system". somethign as simple as [points and shows my accumlated points cause been doing do woth 1200 luck doing lots of damage wiith slayer bows and cu and still no luck lol. just need some light at the end of the tunnel i guess.
Justin McElhaney
Traveler
all i want to say is if the math is correct and im running with 1200 luck through the whole thing with 192 rounds now i think something is off somewhere lol cause i use slayer bows, cuh, and have 1200 luck would think my points would be accumulating nicely and artifact way before 192 rounds lol
Reximus
Page
Eos said:
You still need to pass a roll to get the arti even when you have 100% chance, hence why someone got to 227% chance before getting one.
Reximus
Page
Even with double the points, the system is still too much of a gamble for my liking, averaging 1 artie/week, since the double points, I've gotten 2 x ring of vile, 1 x tunic of fire and 1 x aegis.
So I might leave a character there for when i'm really bored, but it's not consistent revenue and it cost me more to be there (arrows, pof, crafting weapons, deaths on sampire) than I made back.
So I might leave a character there for when i'm really bored, but it's not consistent revenue and it cost me more to be there (arrows, pof, crafting weapons, deaths on sampire) than I made back.
Lucifall
Knight
I already lost count of how many rounds I've done. But I assume you didn't pass the roll to get an arty, as Reximus said. You can have 100% chance of an arty, but if a guy before you gets an arty in the same mob... you get nothing.
MB
Knight
sorry, it's just showladder, not [showladder
MB
Knight
2.27% chance, not 227%
MB
Knight
Use common sense
That would mean an arty got doled out every single boss from 1 to 2.27 before said player got a roll.
mytilus
Sorceror
royal kapero2
Sorceror
Also learn to control your emotions after dying, just because you are lame and failed to hide with smokebomb or run to guardzone, it's not reason to insult the whole nation.
Reximus
Page
Eos said:
Use common sense, that would mean 70% of players got an artie with only 0.7% chance to get one!
Eos may have said 100 points, but she meant 1.0, it makes sense from the formula she gave, since points per boss a number such as 0.006, and it makes sense from the RunUO coding style as Utility.RandomDouble() is often used to check chance which is a number between 0.0 and 1.0.
kolbycrouch
Knight
If you kill 1000 bosses though, you have an accumulative chance of getting one even at 0.7% each.