Heavy Smoker
Knight
Nice, did not know that, thanks. My archer always hits for like 40-80
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Doom and Things (Re: 17 days in Doom)
- Thread starter Eos
- Start date
Chaos_Lord
Sorceror
Also forgot to mention. Wraith form adds unlimited mana as your hits do so much damage that you leech 20-30 mana on every hit (with RBC, AI takes 13 mana,26 when chaining) so you are AI'ing every single time (with the exception of fleshies which is an occasional issue).
april0395
Sorceror
I sometimes stay behind after the dark father(s) is/are down just so I can sort through the items afterward. Most of the people in the Gauntlet have high luck, so the different loot packs can have some pretty nice stuff. :]
Lucifall
Knight
Simplified formulas (correct me if I am wrong)
You can calculate these by writing them in Google Chrome like in this picture:
Main Boss
Mini Bosses
Luck Mod
You can calculate these by writing them in Google Chrome like in this picture:
Main Boss
Code:
Dark Father
( 9 / 256 ) * ( 1 / players ) * ( dmg / 30000 ) * ( 1 + luckmod) ^ 2Mini Bosses
Code:
Fleshrenderers
( 9 / 1024 ) * ( 1 / players ) * ( dmg / 4500 ) * ( 1 + luckmod ) ^ 2
Abyssmal Horrors
( 9 / 1024 ) * ( 1 / players ) * ( dmg / 6000 ) * ( 1 + luckmod ) ^ 2
Darknight Creepers
( 9 / 1024 ) * ( 1 / players ) * ( dmg / 4500) * ( 1 + luckmod ) ^ 2
Shadow Knights
( 9 / 1024 ) * ( 1 / players ) * ( dmg / 2000 ) * ( 1 + luckmod ) ^ 2
Impaler
( 9 / 1024 ) * ( 1 / players ) * ( dmg / 5000 ) * ( 1 + luckmod ) ^ 2Luck Mod
Code:
610 luck = 0.415
1000 luck = 0.5465
1400 luck = 0.659
1700 luck = 0.7333
2400 luck = 0.888
mytilus
Sorceror
total points need to be scaled based on number of people in the room ie. increased not decreased.
If you are one of 10 people in room and doing half the total damage you should receive AT LEAST half the points, actually it should be a lot more for such complete destroy mode dps, but this system rewards you with 1/20th of the points?? With all due respect I understand many test runs were made and everything but this math is very broken. If i want to add 2 plus 2 is it ok to multiply instead just because i get the right answer? Even if I assume the number will be 2 the majority of the time... But when the number is actually 10 the results are disastrous.
Here is another example you are in gauntlet with one other person and you are doing 75% of the damage
you recieve 37% of the total points, you think that is bad?
your buddy recieves only 12.5% of the total points
what happened to the other 50% of the points?
the math gets worse and worse the more people that are there
there is no bonus for percentage of damage dealt awarded in this system, only a penalty for sharing the kills with other people, this system does nothing to encourage team play only more people trying to lure the mobs off by themselves.
if 20x as many people decide they would like to run the gauntlet shouldn't there be 20x as many artifacts drop?? No this system tries to scale the values back to keep drop rates the same regardless of how many people are there.
(1/total players) should either be a multiplier or removed entirely, it is no wonder many people were complaining of lower drop rates then before they probably were, and the few that were enjoying better rates were the few that had the gear to run with 1700 luck. They have their points tripled from the get go.
Please don't take this post the wrong way I am trying to be as constructive as possible and I am very happy with all the work you guys have done since taking over the reigns, but this just doesn't make any sense to me.
Lucifall
Knight
Again, correct me if I am wrong.
Simulations:
Conditions:
• Let's assume you get an artifact at 0.7 up 1.0 points.
• There are 5 players.
• Each player does 20% of total damage (realistically speaking it's usually 15%, with one of the guys taking out the other 40% because of their gear/template)
• There are two bosses per stage,
• Each player has 0 luck.
That's 0.0003515625 points per mini boss and 0.00140625 points per DFs, which translate at 0.006328125 points per round. That's 110-158 rounds before you get an artifact given the conditions above. I am not sure if 9 / XXX is the original amount of total points awarded or if it's the doubled one, but if it's the doubled amount then the original range was 220-316 rounds before you'd get an artifact.
Now, let's add luck to the math.
610 Luck = 2x multiplier = 55-79 rounds
1700 luck = 3x multiplier = 37-53 rounds
2400 luck = 4x multiplier = 28-40 rounds
I am not sure how I feel about this. It really looks like damage is being rewarded too little, and luck is helping too much. And I don't think the points are distributed evenly among the participants. In fact...
Let's say one of the five players has 610 luck. While the four others will be getting 0.006328125 points per round, the guy with luck will be getting 0.01265625. 4 guys get X points, while guy 5 gets 2X. That's 6X, not 5X as it should be if this were a proper distribution.
Simulations:
Conditions:
• Let's assume you get an artifact at 0.7 up 1.0 points.
• There are 5 players.
• Each player does 20% of total damage (realistically speaking it's usually 15%, with one of the guys taking out the other 40% because of their gear/template)
• There are two bosses per stage,
• Each player has 0 luck.
That's 0.0003515625 points per mini boss and 0.00140625 points per DFs, which translate at 0.006328125 points per round. That's 110-158 rounds before you get an artifact given the conditions above. I am not sure if 9 / XXX is the original amount of total points awarded or if it's the doubled one, but if it's the doubled amount then the original range was 220-316 rounds before you'd get an artifact.
Now, let's add luck to the math.
610 Luck = 2x multiplier = 55-79 rounds
1700 luck = 3x multiplier = 37-53 rounds
2400 luck = 4x multiplier = 28-40 rounds
I am not sure how I feel about this. It really looks like damage is being rewarded too little, and luck is helping too much. And I don't think the points are distributed evenly among the participants. In fact...
Let's say one of the five players has 610 luck. While the four others will be getting 0.006328125 points per round, the guy with luck will be getting 0.01265625. 4 guys get X points, while guy 5 gets 2X. That's 6X, not 5X as it should be if this were a proper distribution.
mytilus
Sorceror
Some more realistic examples because one person in a room of ten is probably not doing 50% of the damage...
ten people all doing equal damage all wearing 610 luck will receive 1/10*1/10 of the points so 1/100th of the points
the 610 luck will double your points so every player get 1/50th of total points
a grand total of 10/50 or in more simple terms 1/5th of the points that would be awarded to a solo player are divided up equally and split among 10 people.
3 people in room and one is a tamer doing 1/10 of the damage he is wearing 1700 luck suit for a 3x multiplier
1/3*1/10= 1/30 total points even with luck multiplier means he is still only getting 1/10th of total points
the other two guys are each doing 45% damage so 1/3 * .45 = they are each getting 15% of total points a peice grand total of 40% of the total points
really??
I hope you continue to monitor the drop rates because I can guarantee if more people come to gauntlet because of this 2x fix there will actually be LESS artifacts drop in total because of the way this math is set up. That is if they are not disenchanted by my posts and decide to not go
ten people all doing equal damage all wearing 610 luck will receive 1/10*1/10 of the points so 1/100th of the points
the 610 luck will double your points so every player get 1/50th of total points
a grand total of 10/50 or in more simple terms 1/5th of the points that would be awarded to a solo player are divided up equally and split among 10 people.
3 people in room and one is a tamer doing 1/10 of the damage he is wearing 1700 luck suit for a 3x multiplier
1/3*1/10= 1/30 total points even with luck multiplier means he is still only getting 1/10th of total points
the other two guys are each doing 45% damage so 1/3 * .45 = they are each getting 15% of total points a peice grand total of 40% of the total points
really??
I hope you continue to monitor the drop rates because I can guarantee if more people come to gauntlet because of this 2x fix there will actually be LESS artifacts drop in total because of the way this math is set up. That is if they are not disenchanted by my posts and decide to not go
Lucifall
Knight
I am kind of afraid to see how much these hell hound tamers will get rewarded with this system... but here goes.
Conditions:
• Hell hound tamer does 50% of damage to the boss
• Arty drop range is 0.7-1.0
• There are five players.
• The tamer has 1400 luck.
• There are two bosses per stage.
This tamer will get... 0.00241899697 points per mini boss and 0.00967598789 per DF. That's 0.0435419455 points per round.
That's 16-22 rounds before an artifact drops.
Imagine the guy somehow managed to fit bushido in that character, and gets 2400 luck. 8-11 rounds per artifact.
I have a feeling my math is wrong, but if it's not... then wtf?
Conditions:
• Hell hound tamer does 50% of damage to the boss
• Arty drop range is 0.7-1.0
• There are five players.
• The tamer has 1400 luck.
• There are two bosses per stage.
This tamer will get... 0.00241899697 points per mini boss and 0.00967598789 per DF. That's 0.0435419455 points per round.
That's 16-22 rounds before an artifact drops.
Imagine the guy somehow managed to fit bushido in that character, and gets 2400 luck. 8-11 rounds per artifact.
I have a feeling my math is wrong, but if it's not... then wtf?
kolbycrouch
Knight
I believe honor does not stack with item based luck.
Reximus
Page
Reximus
Page
Ohh, the current gauntlet system is the worst according to my calculations. I wish you hadn't released the formulas, at least I had hope, but now I have none. Not even mentioning that 2x bonus gave a boost to the player count in gauntlet which makes everything impossible. Because firstly, you have to pass the chance of "who will 'try' to get arty" which is 1/playercount, and then you will be checked according to the formulas which is also lowered by player count and the luck bonus which leaves you no chance but to use a luck tamer.
With 2500 luck and 7 players around and 25% of the total damage, you need at least 100 rounds to get a reasonable arty chance (not even arty), which is between 0.7-1.0%, still a joke. Oh I didn't mention that you need to multiply that 0.7% with 1/7 since there is another check to determine the one whose points will be calculated. Voila, the richest becomes richer, the poorest has no chance to suit up. There are already billions of stuff in ML, just make them rarer and make the gauntlet OSI-like. We have been playing AoS for almost 8-9 years here, I am just tired of going to Gauntlet again and again and get back empty handed (not even a decent loot). Since we don't have cooperation rewards, we need to have the artifacts in Doom. The reason OSI made Doom easier is not because they have mistaken, it's simply because that they let go of it, they don't need to make them a rare stuff (they also added them to factions), there is already a rich content and they don't want to bore the players.
If you don't like the OSI style, then make the gauntlet have Felucca ruleset and set the arty chance to 30%. At least we can see some action in the game which will increase the fun in Gauntlet.
With 2500 luck and 7 players around and 25% of the total damage, you need at least 100 rounds to get a reasonable arty chance (not even arty), which is between 0.7-1.0%, still a joke. Oh I didn't mention that you need to multiply that 0.7% with 1/7 since there is another check to determine the one whose points will be calculated. Voila, the richest becomes richer, the poorest has no chance to suit up. There are already billions of stuff in ML, just make them rarer and make the gauntlet OSI-like. We have been playing AoS for almost 8-9 years here, I am just tired of going to Gauntlet again and again and get back empty handed (not even a decent loot). Since we don't have cooperation rewards, we need to have the artifacts in Doom. The reason OSI made Doom easier is not because they have mistaken, it's simply because that they let go of it, they don't need to make them a rare stuff (they also added them to factions), there is already a rich content and they don't want to bore the players.
If you don't like the OSI style, then make the gauntlet have Felucca ruleset and set the arty chance to 30%. At least we can see some action in the game which will increase the fun in Gauntlet.
Reximus
Page
For worth it's worth with my bad comprehension of math, I get the same result.
Whilst for my little archer with 300 luck (assuming 20% of the damage @ 5 people), it's 67 - 96 rounds
Lucifall
Knight
For worth it's worth with my bad comprehension of math, I get the same result.
Whilst for my little archer with 300 luck (assuming 20% of the damage @ 5 people), it's 67 - 96 rounds
Yes, I redid my calculations with the above conditions and got the same result. I will check for 0.3-1.0 range in a bit.
Drucilia
Knight
disregaurding ever but the first post by EOS. Drop rate = lower -----> Camped doom like it was doing out of fashion near max luck - high damage every room every monster no drops. Which means i am earning near the max points u can earn. Think that system your so proud of isnt working buddy. You might aswell bring back the old system. Least I could get the odd artifact then.
Instead of just being slack and counting arty drops - You need to average the amount of time or kills invested by each individual player who got each individual drop.
Its the drop people arnt getting that is proving the point system is BS. The shard is becoming a place where ur better off farming bods to get an arty then plying the game to it because chances of a reward in doom for ur hard work and is SFA.
Say what you like mate. I am up to at least 100+ hours and no drops. i must have nearly a 30% drop chance because on the old system on my sampire with less damage and no luck looting less monster i would drop more then 1 arty in that time.
THE POINT SYSTEM ISNT WORKING.
Instead of just being slack and counting arty drops - You need to average the amount of time or kills invested by each individual player who got each individual drop.
Its the drop people arnt getting that is proving the point system is BS. The shard is becoming a place where ur better off farming bods to get an arty then plying the game to it because chances of a reward in doom for ur hard work and is SFA.
Say what you like mate. I am up to at least 100+ hours and no drops. i must have nearly a 30% drop chance because on the old system on my sampire with less damage and no luck looting less monster i would drop more then 1 arty in that time.
THE POINT SYSTEM ISNT WORKING.
Lucifall
Knight
Okay... given conditions:
#1 Conditions:
• Hell hound tamer does 50% of damage to the boss
• Arty drop range is 0.3-1.0
• There are five players.
• The tamer has 1400 luck.
• There are two bosses per stage.
Points per mini-boss: 0.00241899697
Points per DF: 0.00967598789
Points per round: 0.0435419455
Range: 6-22
2400 luck range: About 3-11
#2 Conditions:
• Arty drop range is 0.3-1.0.
• There are 5 players.
• Each player does 20% of total damage (realistically speaking it's usually 15%, with one of the guys taking out the other 40% because of their gear/template)
• There are two bosses per stage,
• Each player has 0 luck.
Points per mini-boss: 0.0003515625
Points per DF: 0.00140625
Points per round: 0.006328125
Range: 48-158 rounds
Please note these are based on 9 / 256 and 9 / 1024 points. I am not sure what's current total points (I couldn't quite figure it out reading Eos' post, so I just applied the formula)
If 9 is current, then ranges are correct. If current total points is double of 9, then halve round average.
#1 Conditions:
• Hell hound tamer does 50% of damage to the boss
• Arty drop range is 0.3-1.0
• There are five players.
• The tamer has 1400 luck.
• There are two bosses per stage.
Points per mini-boss: 0.00241899697
Points per DF: 0.00967598789
Points per round: 0.0435419455
Range: 6-22
2400 luck range: About 3-11
#2 Conditions:
• Arty drop range is 0.3-1.0.
• There are 5 players.
• Each player does 20% of total damage (realistically speaking it's usually 15%, with one of the guys taking out the other 40% because of their gear/template)
• There are two bosses per stage,
• Each player has 0 luck.
Points per mini-boss: 0.0003515625
Points per DF: 0.00140625
Points per round: 0.006328125
Range: 48-158 rounds
Please note these are based on 9 / 256 and 9 / 1024 points. I am not sure what's current total points (I couldn't quite figure it out reading Eos' post, so I just applied the formula)
If 9 is current, then ranges are correct. If current total points is double of 9, then halve round average.
Lucifall
Knight
I am not sure what's the problem with you guys. Why defend staff blindly when their system is clearly (at least mathematically) broken in many ways? We are trying to provide constructive criticism using the means provided. I am not saying staff sucks, or that I am not grateful for their work. I am saying their version of gauntlet point system is not something I'd call balanced.
This "stop crying, it's free and you should be thankful" stuff does not apply in this case. Eos asked for input, we are giving input.