Blessed Faction Wep Suggestion

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by Mara

Zing, I know that you read all the forum posts to have at least seen my posts in other threads. You must have seen my test where it took 26 swings to kill a mage with spined leather armor, having the mage just stand there doing absolutely nothing but with Arch Protection cast. That was with a freshly made Legendaery smith exceptional longspear. If you want me to test stuff while you sit there and observe in game, just let me know.

How can any GM or player look at those kind of results and say, things are just fine. Is it possible for a lumberjack to kill with a GM exceptional axe. Yeah, it's possible. But only if the mage is pathetic, and the dexer is also throwing pots.

The deal is, the game is balanced somewhere around midrange runics and magic weapons. Maybe somewhere around Gold runics or Power weapons (with a nice tactics bonus). So thus it becomes necessary to use them. Don't try to tell me you kill good mages with a GM exceptional crossbow without relying on pots to do the real work. If you do claim it, let me log on and you are more than welcome to prove it to me.

Deleting items makes them more rare. The vast majority of agapite+ weapons comes from secondary use after the bless has worn out. Nobody else can afford to just make and run around using a weapon that is worth 100k-500k. The only people that would hold on to that for more than an hour are those who only do tournaments, duels, or run in a very lopsided gank all the time. If you have done much PVPing outside of town, you will know that you are completely vulnerable at all times to an instant kill on this shard. There are several guilds like some of the Japanes ones, where Unkoman and friends precast flamestrikes and paralayze in a five man gank. Even on my scribe, I don't always get away.

Don't you find something a bit comical in the exchange of banter between me and ajax in the first place. I said if people hated these weapons they should delete them as they loot them. He replied, that would be crazy. But his post asks for factioneers to have their weapons be auto-deleted. He and the people who voted yes have no problem asking for someone else to lose money, and value. But when it comes time for them to suck it up and do the same thing, it's a preposterous idea. Go figure.

If you are going to make comments like, 'everyone wants something for nothing', you better be able to lay it out in plain english. What exactly have I asked for in return for nothing. Keep in mind, faction blessing items already cost silver, etc. to bless. But spell it out for me in your next post. Please.

Don't you also find Ajax's signature a little unusual. Why would someone want the entire shard to see that in every single one of his posts. It's propaganda plain and simple. And propaganda works.

This thread like all the other related ones is all about one thing. Mages like it when dexers are either at a disadvantage or at best the balance point in weapon damage. When they start to actually win on the battlefield, things get upsetting. Changes must be made, oh my. Reading between the lines, and asking why people suggest cetain things is pretty important. Almost invariably, people make suggestions that benefit themselves, even at the expense of other players.

Will you please stop posting?

I never once suggested getting rid of faction blessed runics.

The point of my suggestion was to find a simply way to clean up SOME of the runic weps on this server.

This is preventative maintenance if you will. Why not clean up some of the runics now, so in six months high end runics will not be seen on every damn dexer on this shard because you can buy an aggy wep for 5k?

This is in no way me coming to the forums bitching about being killed by someone with a runic weapon, you know what they say about people who assume.......

When they start to actually win on the battlefield, things get upsetting. Changes must be made, oh my. Reading between the lines, and asking why people suggest cetain things is pretty important. Almost invariably, people make suggestions that benefit themselves, even at the expense of other players

If you think about it, deleting the runic is really not a HUGE change. The faction member still gets to run around with a runic weapon for TWO weeks without the risk of losing it. I see no reason why you feel they are getting nothing in return for spending some silver.

Again, I don't see why this is so difficult for you to comprehend, I will say it once more... this is a way to clean up some of the runics on this server. Hell, like I said earlier I would be willing to bet any amount of money that at least 75% of the runic weps made 2-3 years ago are still kicking around and being used....

If you are so opposed to this, maybe I will make a new suggestion. Why not make it so runic weapons cannot be repaired?

[Konoe]

just a quick clean up and it seems like everything would be solved :> i dont see any problem with it. Good idea.

[Mara]

I was more than willing to stop posting, until people started to make more comments directed at me that simply don't make sense.

Comments like, if you can't handle it, go home, etc. Those are usually reserved for the people that are crying for change, are they not?

Yes, your suggestion would get rid of some runics. But why on earth do you feel that it is ok to delete my runics, and not everyone elses, including your own? That doesn't make any sense.

Maybe you need to stop posting too.

[Ajax]

Originally Posted by Mara

I was more than willing to stop posting, until people started to make more comments directed at me that simply don't make sense.

Comments like, if you can't handle it, go home, etc. Those are usually reserved for the people that are crying for change, are they not?

Yes, your suggestion would get rid of some runics. But why on earth do you feel that it is ok to delete my runics, and not everyone elses, including your own? That doesn't make any sense.

Maybe you need to stop posting too.

YOU get to run around with a BLESSED runic wep for TWO WEEKS. A non faction member does not. I'm not sure if you understand what the term "Blessed" means, allow me to explain. If you die you KEEP that item it stays on your person.

That right there is well worth the 5-7k silver, whatever it is now. A non faction member who uses a runic cannot bless it. It's called risk vs reward. There is NO risk for a faction member using a runic wep because of the fact that it is blessed. I see no need for the person to keep the weapon after the bless ends on the item. After they ran around with the blessed wep for two weeks with no chance of losing it.

[Mara]

I know Ajax. I know how the system works.

But maybe you can take on the task of comparing the risk on death of the faction Mage PVPer vs the faction dexer. Both carry reagents and supplies. The dexer probably wears armor that cost more.

Your suggestion is fine, but it's not a balanced one. If you look at origins site, the normal faction bless time is 3 weeks, not 2. And on top of that, it only costs 1000 silver to bless an item. So at some point in this shards history, they have nerfed it already.

I have not asked for anything new here. You and others are the ones that are saying hey, why don't we make it also cost the dexer his weapon now too? I doubt that if Winged had come up with this new great idea, he would have received the support you have gotten.

As far as the idea to suggest making runics non-repairable. Yet another unbalanced change that doesn't affect all players equally. I have done enough testing to know that this shard is balance around the use of magic weapons and runics. Getting rid of them or reducing their quantity on the shard only hurts dexers. Not everybody.

[byrdman]

Originally Posted by Mara

You must have seen my test where it took 26 swings to kill a mage with spined leather armor, having the mage just stand there doing absolutely nothing but with Arch Protection cast.

I didn't see this, were there other tests done too?

[Mara]

Yes, I have done many tests to figure out where things are balanced.

Here is some more info.

Warrior with all the right skills, Weapon skill, tactics, anatomy using GM exceptional weapons made by Legendary Smith

vs

GM Mage/Wrestling with spined leather suit (non-magical) with just Arch Protection cast, which lasts two minutes. No reactive armor used. This gives armor rating of 32-33 (Leather suit, including cap, with +4 Robes/Cloak). A very basic setup. Mage just stands there doing absolutely nothing. No healing or anything.

More testing gave me the following results. I posted another test in a different thread.

Long Spear test one - 18 swings to kill
test two - 11 swings to kill
test three - 17 swings to kill

Katana test one - 33 swings to kill
test two - 55 swings to kill
test three - 60 swings to kill

Now test with lumberjacker template with 100 str.

Double Axe test one - 5 swings to kill
test two - 6 swings to kill
test three - 21 swings to kill

Basically the only template that was able to effectively bypass the 33 AR by one simple spell was the lumberjacker, who is already giving up defense for offense. Also note that many times a dexer will miss up to 5 times in a row. Additionally, the lumberjacker is using a weapon that at best is 1 swing per 1.75 sec. This is longer than the time required to cast a greater heal.

I recommend to anyone to verify for themselves if they don't believe it.

So my advice to mages is stop running away. If their weapon sucks, just cast one spell and stand there casting harm, poison, and mindblast. Every time they chug a potion using a two handed weapon, guess what? They have to wait another swing delay before they can hit you again.

The shard is balanced around more powerful weapons. Unfortunately, the cost per death is not balanced between templates.

[Rexrexrex]

Originally Posted by Mara

Yes, I have done many tests to figure out where things are balanced.

Here is some more info.

Warrior with all the right skills, Weapon skill, tactics, anatomy using GM exceptional weapons made by Legendary Smith

vs

GM Mage/Wrestling with spined leather suit (non-magical) with just Arch Protection cast, which lasts two minutes. No reactive armor used. This gives armor rating of 32-33 (Leather suit, including cap, with +4 Robes/Cloak). A very basic setup. Mage just stands there doing absolutely nothing. No healing or anything.

Edit: Just made a gm exceptional spined suit. 18 AR with cap and no robes/cloaks, so...

More testing gave me the following results. I posted another test in a different thread.

Long Spear test one - 18 swings to kill
test two - 11 swings to kill
test three - 17 swings to kill

Katana test one - 33 swings to kill
test two - 55 swings to kill
test three - 60 swings to kill

Now test with lumberjacker template with 100 str.

Double Axe test one - 5 swings to kill
test two - 6 swings to kill
test three - 21 swings to kill

Basically the only template that was able to effectively bypass the 33 AR by one simple spell was the lumberjacker, who is already giving up defense for offense. Also note that many times a dexer will miss up to 5 times in a row. Additionally, the lumberjacker is using a weapon that at best is 1 swing per 1.75 sec. This is longer than the time required to cast a greater heal.

I recommend to anyone to verify for themselves if they don't believe it.

So my advice to mages is stop running away. If their weapon sucks, just cast one spell and stand there casting harm, poison, and mindblast. Every time they chug a potion using a two handed weapon, guess what? They have to wait another swing delay before they can hit you again.

The shard is balanced around more powerful weapons. Unfortunately, the cost per death is not balanced between templates.

??? SPINED gives around 29 AR with cap? It shouldn't. Barbed on OSI was 20ar without cap when it was first added, 23 with. And barbed was the best of the best GM crafted stuff.

The order of worst to best leathers for AR values with GM crafting was Leather, Spined, Horned, Barbed. Something's not right here.

Edit: Just made a GM spined suit and it was 18 AR with cap and no veteran cloak/robe, hm? Horned is 19, barbed is 20.

[Mara]

No, the full six piece spined suit provides 18 freshly made. The robe and cloak vet rewards add +4. For a base of 22. Casting one simple Arch Protection bumps you to 33 for two minutes, and makes you practically invulnerable to GM exceptional weapons, except for the very slow ones that you can easily heal through anyway.

Not to mention that if you are fighting a dexer, you should have Reactive Armor cast instead of reflect, but that wasn't part of my test. That would make the number of required swings increase quite dramatically.

[JamesD88]

Originally Posted by TheTalentedMrZing

This is a faction bless weapon change, for factioners. Being a factioner is optional. Hence, if this were implemented and you didn't want to have your runic deleted, quit. Join O/C if your blue, or just roll with reds in regular guilds.

Oh, and to the followup argument of "Well then I can't bless my itemez". Tough fuckin titty. Like Ajax said, it's not getting any more expensive, so just buy a new runic. And tommorow, they'll be cheaper, buy another.

PM me when you start rolling around with a valorite or verite weapon, or when you can buy or earn either hammer, then what you said will have some merit.