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How to Train a Pet.

Paracelsus

Sorceror
Is it for pvp or pvm?

If pvm, no training at all. Pvm activity can field-train your mare back to 5x and your dragon back to 6x if you are "patient" enough. More important, you don't need pets to be 7x to hunt monster.

If pvp, train only melee skill (wrestling, tactics, anatomy) back to GM. For resist, don't waste time. For magery, not cost-effective.

Re-train by resetting skill to zero only if the skills drop below 90.
 

Mondaine

Sorceror
its for PvM. i suck more at PvP then my Pets so i have no other choice atm :)

thnx a lot for your response. i'd stop training the stuff then and let them get the experience during fights even if it takes forever
 

Paracelsus

Sorceror
Just show you my pets' skills for your reference.

My vet tamer.
(dragon)
- wrestling/tactics/anatomy/meditation 100.0
- resist 72.3 <--- died over 20 times (Usually the resist of the freshly tamed dragon/mare is close to 90.)
- magery 78.5 / ei 96.0
(mare)
- wrestling/meditation 100.0
- tactics 97.7 / anatomy97.1 <--- recently died 3 times (2 times my silly mistakes, 1 time being pked.)
- resist 70.2 <--- died over 20 times (died many times in defensing pks.)
- magery 75.1 / ei 88.5

Both are field trained without zeroing. I use them for pvm and in defensing pk. (Note: I have many 7x pets. But, I rarely use 7x in pvm and pvp.)
 

Paracelsus

Sorceror
It would be hard to comment. Some people may even use 7x for pvp. I have nothing to say on this. Just their preference. However, to train the pets as 7x, zeroing is better for faster training.

IMHO, if you are using the pets for pvp, 6x is enough. For the freshly tamed pets, their resist is close to 90 which is enough for most of the cases. Directly train them without let them have chance to gain in melee, you should be able to train its magery up at a reasonable time. Once magery GM, train the melee skill. You will have 6x.

If your pets are for pvm, I personally would not train them inside house. Simply take them out killing monsters. Eventually, their melee will be GM and magery will reach the 80 level. It would be powerful enough to pvm even anti-pk. The only exception when I use 7x (or close to 7x) pets is my stables full of 7x.

I train 7x just for fun. To satisfy myself with full house of 7x pets as my personal collection.
 
Here's how I train resist on a fresh tamed mare without any deaths, not bonded. It doesn't require a second mare and as close to danger-free as you can get on a PvP server. It does require about 6.4k regs, 180 raw ribs, one utility character and two mages that can cast mana vampire on your other accounts. You'll need to keep all 4 accounts logged in overnight.
Remember that fresh tames start with zero anatomy, very low magery/eval, and about 85 resist, so they're just barely under the 400 point threshold, and skills still train pretty fast.
1. Get 4 small tables. Put 180 raw ribs in your tamer's backpack. Place 3 of the tables in the configuration that everybody uses to keep the mare stationary and ride the mare to the center. dismount and tell the mare to stay. Then walk out and place the 4th table so the mare can't move.
2. Make a macro that feeds the mare 3 raw ribs every 10 minutes. It stays wonderfully happy, so you could probably wait a lot longer, but I don't take any chances; ribs are cheap.
3. Log in a utility character in another account. Place the utility character at a door in sight of the tamer. Tell the mare to kill that character, then have the utility character close the door so the mare can't see him. It can be a freshly made character; it only receives one hit from a newly tamed mare with practically no magery.
4. Log in two mages on other accounts. Empty their backpacks (leave the spellbook in them of course) and stock them with 600 each of the regs you need to cast mana vampire and 200 each of the regs to cast greater heal. Set up a macro that casts mana vampire, checks health and if it's below 80 casts greater heal, then checks mana and if it's below 50 meditates for 20 seconds, then loops.
5. Go to bed. When you wake up, your mare will be GM resist and about 65 each magery and eval int.

Notes:
Does this method waste time? You bet. But your mages will burn all the regs in their packs during the night, and be trying to cast with 0 regs in the morning, so who cares whether they took 2 hours or 5 hours to do their job?
I don't know if it really takes that many regs; that's what will fit in the mages' backpacks. I'm not good at using the agent function of razor, so I just load both mages' packs with all the regs they can hold.
The only danger is if a griefer PK sees all those characters and an unbonded mare AFK in your house and gets a dozen of his friends to spam earthquake and meteor swarm until everybody dies and you wake up with a dozen or so messages asking if you want to report characters as murderers.

Very low danger mage/eval/med training, one tamer, one mare, which can be freshly tamed, not bonded. Do this AFTER you train magic resist:
You need: a dexxer with GM healing and resist
Place the dexxer behind the door, so the mare can only see him when the door is open. Tell the mare to kill the dexxer. Set up a macro so the dexxer heals himself. Set up a macro so your utility character opens the door, keeps it open 15 seconds, then closes it and waits 33 seconds before opening it again. That lets the mare have 15 seconds to hit your dexxer with spells, then 33 seconds for the mare to regenerate mana and the dexxer enough time to apply 3 bandages to heal. Plus, if you get disconnected, it means your dexxer probably won't die. Put 3k bandages in his pack, or set up a restock agent and put a few thousand bandages in a nearby secure container.
Go to bed. If you can figure out how to use an agent, you'll need to get it to re-stock. When you wake up, either your mare will be 100 meditation, low 80's magery and low 90's evaluate intelligence or your dexxer will have failed to bandage in time and he will be dead.
A second night will get your mare to about 85/100 mage/eval
Then it'll take a few more nights to hit GM magery.

Notes:
Just in case your dexxer dies while you're asleep, make sure that the only thing you'll lose is a few bandages; he's just sitting there taking everything the mare can dish out, so the only thing he needs in his pack is bandages, and he's not getting hit with any melee damage, so he doesn't need to wear anything at all.
If you have a second dexxer handy, as a safety precaution, have him heal dexxer A, as well. If you do, though, remember that dexxer B will only take 5 seconds to heal dexxer A, so he will use a ton of bandages. Stock several thousand of them.
 

Paracelsus

Sorceror
The concept are correct but the way to do it some parts are not right. Too long the message, hard to comment as I am a bit sleepy now. By the way, have I discussed the mare training with you in recent weeks? :)
 
People can probably make macros that are 100x as good as these, but here's what I use:
You would have to right click and re-target everything to set it for your own Nightmare.

Feed Nightmare every 10 minutes:
!Loop
Assistant.Macros.LiftTypeAction|2545|3
Assistant.Macros.DropAction|0xBE745|(-1, -1, 0)|0
Assistant.Macros.PauseAction|00:10:00

Open door every minute:
!Loop
Assistant.Macros.DoubleClickAction|1089066504|1721
Assistant.Macros.PauseAction|00:01:00

cast mana vampire and heal mages:
!Loop
Assistant.Macros.MacroCastSpellAction|53
Assistant.Macros.WaitForTargetAction|30
Assistant.Macros.AbsoluteTargetAction|0|1|780101|732|1006|7|116
Assistant.Macros.PauseAction|00:00:01
Assistant.Macros.IfAction|0|0|80
Assistant.Macros.MacroCastSpellAction|29
Assistant.Macros.WaitForTargetAction|30
Assistant.Macros.HotKeyAction|1059|
Assistant.Macros.EndIfAction
Assistant.Macros.IfAction|1|0|50
Assistant.Macros.UseSkillAction|46
Assistant.Macros.PauseAction|00:00:20
Assistant.Macros.EndIfAction

Heal dexxer:
!Loop
Assistant.Macros.IfAction|0|0|99
Assistant.Macros.HotKeyAction|1025|
Assistant.Macros.ForAction|12
Assistant.Macros.IfAction|4|0|you finish applying
Assistant.Macros.HotKeyAction|0|Play: self heal
Assistant.Macros.ElseAction
Assistant.Macros.IfAction|4|0|you heal what little
Assistant.Macros.HotKeyAction|0|Play: self heal
Assistant.Macros.ElseAction
Assistant.Macros.IfAction|4|0|that being is not
Assistant.Macros.HotKeyAction|0|Play: self heal
Assistant.Macros.ElseAction
Assistant.Macros.IfAction|4|0|you bind the wound
Assistant.Macros.HotKeyAction|0|Play: self heal
Assistant.Macros.ElseAction
Assistant.Macros.PauseAction|00:00:01
Assistant.Macros.EndForAction
 
@Paracelsus: I've discussed training with a lot of people, yourself included. Mostly trying to figure out if there was any way other than zeroing for me to get resist back up on a dragon that's died like a dozen times. I believe you agreed with the vast majority: It's just not possible. I've also been told a ton of methods for how to re-train once I get him to zero.
I did try something of my own devising instead of zeroing him out: I got 3x mages to cast daemons, sic em on him, while my tamer heals, and the mages cast mana vampire. It would work, but it would take days, and you can't just set it up and go to bed; you do have to sort of watch it to make sure the daemons don't get lucky and kill him, or all 3 mages fail to re-cast daemons and he kills them all. I had both happen when I tried it afk. I'm thinking about trying the same method I used to train resist on my mares; it's pretty much safe, and it should eventually get him back to GM resist. It'll just take a ton of regs and several nights. But I'll be sleeping while they're training my dragon, so it won't really matter.

About training a freshly tamed mare: The vast majority of the people say wait a week for it to bond (I don't have the patience), kill it till it zeroes, then start fresh, use two tamers (which I don't have a 2nd one), and two mares. I've been playing on OSI since 99 and here for over 2 years, but I just recently got my very first tamer up to GM. Unless I luck up on a skill ball, I'm not likely to ever do it again. I can't stand the sight of a bull. :) I just thought I would let all the other rookie tamers know what worked for me.

The advantages of doing it this way were: I've got a bunch of mages and a couple of dexxers handy, and this method just cost about 20k gold worth of regs, less than 20k gold worth of bandages, about 10 minutes to set up, and it did all the work while I was sleeping.
 

Paracelsus

Sorceror
Why I was asking because I was sharing taming for a few people recent years. That's why I wonder. :p

Instead of using the dexxer, try swampy. Better dummy. :)
 
@Paracelsus: I first met you when I bought a +30 ASH from you like 2 weeks ago, and we talked about some stuff besides BODs, including whether there was any trick to fix my dragon without resetting its stats. I pretty much asked everybody I talked to about it :) By the way, if you get any more +30 ASH, I'll probably need another one in a few weeks; I've burned through like 150 charges already.

About that dragon: I am going to probably just keep hunting with him as-is: My tamer is GM cartography, lockpicking, fishing, the 3 taming skills, and 70 magery 30 item ID; he's mostly a treasure hunter. The usual spawn from a t map is like 2x lich lords, a blood ele and a poison ele; not exactly overwhelming but they do cast a lot of high-end spells. I like to use him at the balron and ancient lich spawns on occasion, too. The dragon can survive in PvM with low resist, and he's not likely to survive a PvP encounter no matter how well-trained he is; my character has exactly zero PvP skills, and once my character dies, he's a sitting duck.

I did luck up on a 825/824 red dragon fresh tame that I'm going to train to 7x. Why hybrid's great: While I was taming it, a PK killed me; I thought "Oh, crap, that dragon's toast"; I had been keeping it at 4% health to make it easier to tame, one e-bolt and it would have died, but he saw what I was doing and helped me tame it.

I might try using a swampy or something like a drake as a target sometime, but I've never had any luck with using them; when the mare gets pretty high magery, they die really easy unless they're well-trained, and taking the time to train one would sorta defeat the purpose; I would have to get up and rez my dexxer's swampy every few minutes. Not exactly set-it-and-forget it. Plus, that 7k gp worth of armor that pops when the swampy dies isn't much, but it's probably more than I would spend on bandages for my dexxer to get the mare all the way to GM, if I don't use a second dexxer as a backup healer. The dexxer used less than 2k bandages last night; that's about 2k gold to get a mare from 65/65.1 to 79.3/91.4 mage/eval.

I use my dexxer because he doesn't die when the nightmare does a huge mana dump. I'm currently training a mare I bought a couple days ago. It was a fresh tame, and I GM'ed magic resist the night I bought it. I left them sparring all night last night, without even using my other dexxer as a backup healer, and they were still going at it this morning. The mare gained from 65/65.1 mage/eval to 79.3/91.4 in about 8 hours. I did change the times a little: My doorman kept the door open 12 seconds then left it closed for 33 seconds; that way, the mare could do his mana dump and recharge some of his mana, and the dexxer had enough time to heal poison and apply a 2nd bandage to get him back to 100% health, then he could just sit around waiting the last 11 seconds for the next mana dump. Not having 60 seconds for the mare to recharge its mana means sometimes it will run out of mana, but the spells are so random that most of the time he'll have some left after the mana dump, and will be able to at least cast one or two high-end spells when the door opens. I tried cutting the time that the door was closed to 22 seconds for an hour this morning, but the mare only gained .3 eval and no magery, and it was constantly out of mana. Epic fail. It's looking like somewhere in the 30 seconds to 1 minute range is going to be optimum.

Another advantage to using a dexxer:. If I wasn't too lazy to make the macro a little more complicated, I could use the dexxer as the doorman and make him totally death-proof by just adding a conditional to the razor macro: If health > 99 open door, if health < 50 close door. A simple double click item type would work. However, unless he's poisoned, the dexxer generally gets back to 100 health in 11 seconds after the mare's mana dump, so the mare wouldn't have enough time to regenerate mana, so it couldn't cast many high-end spells, and would seldom, if ever, get a gain once it hits like 85 magery.

Which brings up the really big problem, no matter what you're using as a target: Getting the timing just right so the door stays closed long enough that the mare regenerates enough mana so it can cast enough high-end spells that it maximizes gains, but doesn't have any extra time to stand around with 125 mana. And the amount of time it needs to recharge changes some as the mare gets better magery skill. I'm still playing with the timing; it's tricky trying to get it just right.
 

Paracelsus

Sorceror
I need to search if I have another +30 ASH. :)

For your t-hunter, you don't need GM in cartography, you only need around 79.2 to start decoding level 5 map. The saved skill point can be put back to magery. Regarding your dragon, no matter what the skill is, it can still survive in a pvp encounter (i mean anti-pk). The survival depends on what strategy you use to defense the pks, the environment, pk hunting skill (not pvp skill set), how many pks. Even no resist and wrestling, you may still survive from the solo pk and may even loot him. With no resist and no wrestling, the best strategy to deal with gankers is run.

Some pks are not as evil as you think. They just role play pk and robber for fun. They are not with cold blood. :)

Pick the swampy with high HP (close to 300). Use it as a casting dummy. I only need a vet tamer to vet it every 5s (simple macro loop). The swampy won't die even it is a dragon casting. Use it as a melee dummy, you need 1 vet tamer on it all the way if training a mare. If it is a dragon, at certain point, you need another vet tamer to jump in.

> The dexxer used less than 2k bandages last night; that's about 2k gold to get a mare from 65/65.1 to 79.3/91.4 mage/eval.
Just bear in mind, 90% of the time/resource is consumed in the final 10% of the training. :p You may end up more than that number.

About the resting time, i use the following approach.

- [ door open (casting) - door close (short break for partial mana regen) ] repeat a few times
- full break for full mana regen

Since the pets cast very random, it will be very time consuming to full break after every casting. The actual mana use may be just 20 or if luck 80. But, most cases few mana consumed. Use short break to partial mana regen may speed up a bit (just my thought. wish it can help a bit. :p)
 
umm...You just need 80 cart skill to decode level 3 maps, but a level 5 devious treasure map requires GM cart. Even 99.9 won't work. I fail like 4 times out of 5 at decoding them at GM. I just have to keep trying till the map pops up; sometimes it takes 10 tries, but it eventually decodes. If they've changed it recently, it's news to me; a level 5 map has required GM cart to decode since at least 1999; I used to do them in pre-trammel days with a couple of friends on Atlantic.
http://www.uogamers.com/knowledge/q...tography+is+required+to+decode+treasure+maps?
http://tessascove.com/quickchart.html#cartography
http://tessascove.com/skillguides/cartography.html

Yeah, 2k bandages is just the beginning; it'll take a lot of bandages. So far tonight, he's used 280 bandages and the mare has gained to 82.3/97.7; by the time it's GM magery/eval, he'll probably use at least 10k bandages. If I was using a secondary healer, it would be more like 20k bandages total; the 20k figure is what I listed in my first post on the subject.
 

Paracelsus

Sorceror
I have decoded the level 5 map here with 79.2 cartography (stat can affect a bit) for years. Just many failure but can still decode level 5. Maybe you can try to lower your cartography at next server down. No loss after the server is restarted. :)

For t-hunt, only GM lockpicking is required to unlock the level 5 chest.
 
I'll try it next server down. It doesn't matter how many times I fail, as long as it eventually decodes. That 20 points would come in handy elsewhere.

I'm trying the swampy as target again; he started with the mare at 83/98.6 mage/eval this morning. I'm still not convinced that it'll be either as fast or as cost efficient as using my dexxer as target. My dexxer only bandages once every 11 seconds and requires 1 to 2 bandages per cycle total, depending on whether he's poisoned; the swampy requires a bandage every 5 seconds, and he loses a TON of health every time the door opens; I had to cut the time the door stays open to 8 seconds because he was dying at 12 seconds open. I'm leaving it closed for 35 seconds to give my tamer an extra bandage to heal him.

It's looking like it'll cost about 3-4 times as many bandages to use a swampy rather than a dexxer as the target, since it's costing about 6 bandages per cycle to heal instead of 1 or 2, and it'll take about 1/3 longer to train, since the time the door stays open is only 2/3 as long. There are advantages to using a swampy, though, chief among them that my dexxer's swampy is gaining magic resist pretty fast, but it will cost a lot more time and gold.
 
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