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Genocide pete aka red robo cop

Flarssi

Squire
 
I'd just like to quote what you said earlier, Chase. You told Mickey in response to his post, "

Pat didn't lose, Genocide douche did nothing but run around with his weapon swinging away and doing ungodly amounts of damage. He's garbage, and to say Pat lost because he needed to restock is ridiculous and completely proves the point that dexxers are OP. How, you might ask? You first say dexxers aren't OP, but then contend that any mage that runs out of supplies (which are limited due to the amount of items that can be carried without being overweight), instantly LOSES the battle...yet, the opposition has ZERO supplies that are likely to run out aside from wands, which anybody with a brain should understand are null/void in regard to why people restock.

Essentially, you're hypocritical by saying he lost and also saying dexxers aren't op. Done deal. BYE
Dexxers have zero supplies? I guess no dexxers carry regs, pots, wands. Genius... You sir should not enter the pvp forum, as you have never contributed to any sort of pvp, except maybe being easy wins in a duel.
 

Pepsi_Rox

Knight
Pat lost because he ran away from the fight. Blame it on anything you want, but essentially he ran away in a 1v1 scenario. Dexxers don't operate the same as a mage, you have to understand this. A perk of theirs is the ability to be able to swing a weapon without having to use any resource such as mana/regs for their damage. They lack in other facets of the game that the staff aren't seeing nor appear to want to address. I'll say what I said earlier, giving top tier items that cost millions of gold does not balance anything; it merely gives the rich playing dexxers an out that normal, average dexxers can not attain. Dexxers are in a volatile state where if the stars align on their hits with these super weapons they can kill anybody in a 1v1 scenario, however they rely solely on luck rather than skill in order to do so which doesn't create solid game play IMHO.

Just because you throw in top end valorites to be blessed for factioners doesn't fix anything, only perpetuate the problem that dexxers/mages have with one another, ultimately fixing nothing and causing players on both sides to feel something wrong. From a dexxing perspective, you'll still feel that the hit rate lacks enormously at times while you have to watch a mage rape your butthole without being able to counterpressure, and from a mages perspective who the hell wants to give dexxers any more buffs when they can already 2 shot you with back to back great hits even if you have solid armor.

Either way Ryan decides to go from this point will be met with tons of criticism and ultimately it will be his own fault for allowing high end, high damage/armor items that cost a lot of gold, effectively making dexxing a pay to win template that will only get stupider from this point on unless the problems are met. We'll see what happens!
This is a very good post that should be read.

It once used to be about skill, marginal dexers fought marginal mages with marginal weapons against marginal armor. Over 10+ years of farming and resource gathering there exists tons of surplus weapons and armor. Eventually every tournament showcases perfect weapons and perfect armor. The real problem came with the complacency from this, where mages needed more armor to compete against dexers in tournaments who were using Valorite Weapons. The totally rational solution was to add better mage armor. The gigantic negative side effect is that each character becomes increasingly harder to kill, mages and dexers. If you can't log kills you don't want to PVP. <- this is why people gravitate toward UOForever PVP, there are still marginal fights. Basic Field PVP is the minor leagues, no minor leagues means no talent moving up the food chain.

I don't really think adding higher weapons is the key to the future of field PVP, BUT it is the future of Tournament PVP. Lunar and Undine (now strength/greater strength) armor should have never been. Hybrid armor should have never been. Blessed valorites should have never been. How do you fix this mess?

There has always been a premium paid for the best wands, weapons, and armor. The fact of the matter is that NONE of that stuff was ever intended for field combat. How do you undo what should have never been done? It's simple, you make the weapons and armor unblessed so that their primary use is in tournaments. Similar to bolla/tamers, they are next in line to be nerfed. As for greater heal and lightning wands, they should require 1/2 normal mana to use, and/or should make characters stop for 1/2 normal time to cast. This would allow wands to be more useful in Tournament-style setup where all players are on foot and the item itself is not at risk. This also doesn't erode the market for wands in one night.

It's so very discouraging for a new player to come up on somebody in the field who is unkillable. With stackable potions you have characters running around with 150+ potions on them, wands, armor, etc. On the field, who the fuck wants to take the time to drain your opponent through all of his cure pots before a heal/stun has a chance for a kill? In addition to wands, armor, and weapons getting nerf'd. The most simple suggestion to fix this issue: Make full potions weigh 2 stones, and empty bottles weigh 1 stone. This effects field PVP but DOES NOT effect tournament PVP, as resources are generally not consumed.

You should never have to pay more than 10k to field a viable character in UO, but you should always have the option to use your gold as a resource to fund PVP, in tournaments. The invincible should be stricken to tournaments, where without their million dollar equipment they are normalized with the everyman of field PVP.
 

amtothepm

Knight
This is a very good post that should be read.

It once used to be about skill, marginal dexers fought marginal mages with marginal weapons against marginal armor. Over 10+ years of farming and resource gathering there exists tons of surplus weapons and armor. Eventually every tournament showcases perfect weapons and perfect armor. The real problem came with the complacency from this, where mages needed more armor to compete against dexers in tournaments who were using Valorite Weapons. The totally rational solution was to add better mage armor. The gigantic negative side effect is that each character becomes increasingly harder to kill, mages and dexers. If you can't log kills you don't want to PVP. <- this is why people gravitate toward UOForever PVP, there are still marginal fights. Basic Field PVP is the minor leagues, no minor leagues means no talent moving up the food chain.

I don't really think adding higher weapons is the key to the future of field PVP, BUT it is the future of Tournament PVP. Lunar and Undine (now strength/greater strength) armor should have never been. Hybrid armor should have never been. Blessed valorites should have never been. How do you fix this mess?

There has always been a premium paid for the best wands, weapons, and armor. The fact of the matter is that NONE of that stuff was ever intended for field combat. How do you undo what should have never been done? It's simple, you make the weapons and armor unblessed so that their primary use is in tournaments. Similar to bolla/tamers, they are next in line to be nerfed. As for greater heal and lightning wands, they should require 1/2 normal mana to use, and/or should make characters stop for 1/2 normal time to cast. This would allow wands to be more useful in Tournament-style setup where all players are on foot and the item itself is not at risk. This also doesn't erode the market for wands in one night.

It's so very discouraging for a new player to come up on somebody in the field who is unkillable. With stackable potions you have characters running around with 150+ potions on them, wands, armor, etc. On the field, who the fuck wants to take the time to drain your opponent through all of his cure pots before a heal/stun has a chance for a kill? In addition to wands, armor, and weapons getting nerf'd. The most simple suggestion to fix this issue: Make full potions weigh 2 stones, and empty bottles weigh 1 stone. This effects field PVP but DOES NOT effect tournament PVP, as resources are generally not consumed.

You should never have to pay more than 10k to field a viable character in UO, but you should always have the option to use your gold as a resource to fund PVP, in tournaments. The invincible should be stricken to tournaments, where without their million dollar equipment they are normalized with the everyman of field PVP.



 

Valentino

Sorceror
i have several runic hammers, including multiple valorites and verites. i'd gladly throw them in a trash and never use another runic if wands were removed, or severely limited, and magic armor was reset to account for 10+ years of farming, hybrid plate armor was removed, and ryan tweaked the hit rate %. of course, this won't happen, no one wants to give up anything that benefits them, they just want the other guy to give up his goodies.
 

Pepsi_Rox

Knight
i have several runic hammers, including multiple valorites and verites. i'd gladly throw them in a trash and never use another runic if wands were removed, or severely limited, and magic armor was reset to account for 10+ years of farming, hybrid plate armor was removed, and ryan tweaked the hit rate %. of course, this won't happen, no one wants to give up anything that benefits them, they just want the other guy to give up his goodies.
That says a lot about how you care more about the health of the PVP scene than what you've worked hard to attain man.

There are too many pros to wands and not enough cons. They just seem so entrenched in PVP here that a complete removal would be dangerous. You're an old school guy and you remember verite runic weapons were just fine before the wand hysteria and hybrid armor. In tournaments, particularly 1v1's, I think greater strength should be considered "runic armor", only allowed when runic weapons are allowed. For such a "skill based" template it's really surprising alchy stuns can't fight a dexer when STR pots are added to the duel ruleset. STR pots are critical for dexers to get maximum damage out of their template. I do however, disagree with your hit rate suggestion. I think it's fine the way it is. Dexers also get greater agility and strength potions if they really want to swing at a higher rate.

Pros:
No magery needed - This should not be nerfed
Cannot be disrupted
Cast while moving
Do not require mana

Cons:
You have to farm them
Or be rich

My 5 suggestions to bring Hybrid back to the glory days of PVP:

1. Nerf Wands
- make the player stop to cast using a wand and allow them to be disrupted

2. Unbless Hybrid AR
- compensate those who spent the gold on it (maybe a CUB return barrel where 1 piece is worth 250,000 emblems)

3. Unbless valorite faction weapons
- compensation not necessary here

4. Nerf Potions
- make full potions weigh 2 stones, and empty bottles weigh 1 stone

5. Nerf Greater Strength/Hybrid AR in Tournaments
- consider these "Runic Armor" so they are only activated when runics are activated as well

Main Objectives
1. Limit the stock a player can field with.
2. Level the playing field for old and new players in field and tournaments.
3. Respect that people have already spent hard earned gold and time to attain these luxury items.
4. Maintain these items as objects used in PVP, but make them high risk high reward items in the field.
5. Allow dexers and hybrid mages the opportunity to compete on a fair playing field in 1v1 tournaments.
 

Vizeroth

Sorceror
The paltry damage bonus isn't why strength potions make a dexxer hard to kill in a duel. It's all about the HP and surviving a dump.

What is the purpose of limiting the stock that a player can hold? Why do you think spamming poison until someone is out of cure potions is a viable and fun strategy? How is PVP enhanced by having to run away once a resource becomes low? You talk about new players being discouraged about not having as much stock, but do you honestly think it would matter either way? New players will die horribly regardless of each player's loadout, so it seems silly to make detrimental changes like this for their sake.
 

Pepsi_Rox

Knight
The paltry damage bonus isn't why strength potions make a dexxer hard to kill in a duel. It's all about the HP and surviving a dump.
strength plays an offensive and defensive role for dexers, you should know this. I was merely pointing this out to mages who've never swung a weapon.

What is the purpose of limiting the stock that a player can hold?

The game was never intended for people to run out with 200+ potions on them, that's why they initially weren't stackable. Ideally I'd just say go back to the old way, but if you can figure out a way to unstack potions be my guest.

Why do you think spamming poison until someone is out of cure potions is a viable and fun strategy?
lol, get real, man.

How is PVP enhanced by having to run away once a resource becomes low?
At least somebody fucking dies, mages will still have reagents to cast spells and dexers will still have weapons. If you can't kill a mage 1v1 no potions you're pretty bad tbh. but I understand the "run cause I'm scared" theory you put forth, I think you'd get used to it ;)

You talk about new players being discouraged about not having as much stock, but do you honestly think it would matter either way?
yes

you really should eat a snickers, you get defensive when you're hungry.
 

Vizeroth

Sorceror
Yes, let's make restocking tedious again to give the illusion that newbs stand a chance in PVP. Sounds great.
 

Pepsi_Rox

Knight
yeah it is really convenient, not gonna lie. I'm just trying to open a dialogue for simple changes that doesn't completely fuck up the PVP scene for field or tournaments. If you're happy with the amount of action you find right now that's cool, but I think you're the minority there. :/

I don't think the game gets more fun making people harder to kill, most of my suggestions are meant to attain the opposite. I relate it to the asian carp dilemma, where rich players force small players out of the PVP scene. (http://www.chicagoline.com/blog/2014/7/10/chicago-rivers-asian-carp-dilemma if you're unfamiliar with the situation).
 

Death To You

Sorceror
The game was never intended for people to run out with 200+ potions on them, that's why they initially weren't stackable. Ideally I'd just say go back to the old way, but if you can figure out a way to unstack potions be my guest.
"The game was never intended for people to run out with 200+ potions on them" is not a valid argument. This game has been out for over 17 years and the way people play the game has changed. Also unstacked potions were design for a osi era we are not an exact replica of. The issue I have with the idea limiting the stock players can hold is it that it gives yet another advantage to the already overpowered tactic of coming back on alts, not only will they have the mana advantage but you would also start running out of stock now.
 

Pepsi_Rox

Knight
"The game was never intended for people to run out with 200+ potions on them" is not a valid argument. This game has been out for over 17 years and the way people play the game has changed. Also unstacked potions were design for a osi era we are not an exact replica of. The issue I have with the idea limiting the stock players can hold is it that it gives yet another advantage to the already overpowered tactic of coming back on alts, not only will they have the mana advantage but you would also start running out of stock now.
well I guess what I meant was HERE they weren't always stackable. But you do bring up a very valid point against my suggestion. the whole bring an alt thing is kinda gay on the field, but at least it does keep the action moving. do I really think potions are the root of the problem? nah. really my grief is with wands having way too many advantages and no disadvantages. I could concede that suggestion if the other ones are strongly considered.
 

Vizeroth

Sorceror
It's odd that one of your complaints is that people don't die, yet you wish to limit the effectiveness of wands and the availability of runic weapons, both of which facilitate killing people. Most of your comments seem to stem from an armchair general who is completely out of touch with the game he's trying to critique. But hey, let's test your theory about whether a dexxer is "bad" if he can't kill a mage while not using potions, because that sounds like an amusing way to prove my point.

Message me on AIM so we can arrange this (and so I can buy your silver).
 
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